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KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

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KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby Argiletonne » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:23 am

Rokit Series speakers from KRK said to be most popular among good buying citizens of the world united by one goal, supporting Gibson Music.

I own a pair of Rokit Series G3 speakers and felt like after using them for a few years there must be something better than these speakers. Although they produce what appears to be good sounding audio with a nice amount of low end for such small speakers it is apparent to me to realize a bit of delusion on the part of the consumer by way of mass media disfunction due to marketing propaganda. Oh and the support staff are not very insightful in terms of help.

I recently spoke with the support staff about the speakers and suggested I was looking for the best way to get good realistic treble from my productions when using their speakers and how should I best utilize the EQ options on the back of the speakers. The support Person suggested I do not use the EQ at all (verbatim),.

So there you have it, the EQ of the KRK Rokit series speakers are not meant to be used when working in a studio environment and only meant for consumer usage. Of course this is a big selling point of the speakers I would think for most people when comparing different low priced speakers similar to the ones sold by KRK. With or without speakers that come with tunable EQ knobs on the back.

After my own dissatisfaction with the speakers ability to give me something that would sound good all around on different speakers I came to the conclusion of trying to find out why these Rokit series speakers produce such a "different" sound that does not seem to image well when taken to other devices and used with other speakers. Essentially, producing a stereo image that will only sound like itself when played back using their speakers.

On the specs page of the website for KRK they show a simple comparison chart of all information regarding their speakers for both the Rokit series and the V series. I took notice of how each speaker had a different value of watts for the tweeter and woofer(s) of the class of speakers. This is probably one of the most telling things about this brand. Each size of speaker you buy will give you a very different stereo image of your music within their own brand and own line of speakers. If you cannot even get the same stereo image from the same brand of speakers how are you supposed to produce music that will be cross platform ready? Or so I continue to think.

A breakdown of the watt to speaker ratio for each speaker in the Rokit series:
4 inch - 10 tweeter, 20 woofer
5 inch - 20 tweeter, 30 woofer
6 inch - 25 tweeter, 48 woofer
8 inch - 25 tweeter, 75 woofer
& (new addition)
10 inch - 30 tweeter, 30 mid, 80 woofer

As you can see by those numbers each speaker is completely different within their own line of speakers and they never found a way to standarize the tweeter to woofer formula for the Rokit line of speakers. This could be a good thing but that could also be a bad thing. If you are a well informed music technologist buying one of the KRK Rokit speakers will mean knowing what you are bying by the numbers and choosing the right one for the kind of work you are trying to accomplish.

But what if you are new to music and only understand the difference between the size of the speaker and the price of the speaker? It's easy enough to ignore the greater details that differentiate these speakers and the make the mistake of choosing the wrong one.
I should state buying the most expensive one for most lines of the speakers you usually win more than you lose which most people understand as a common practice in society, the more you pay the better you get. As in the case of the random specs for the Rokit series of KRK speakers I think it gets a bit more tricky.

This is a good lesson to learn when buying speakers and to remember it might actually be about more than the size of the speaker and the price you pay. Sometimes you have to pay for the possibilities that come from the design and the potential those technical specifications might bring.

This is my review of the KRK Rokit Series speakers.

Special Note (Speaker Comparison):

The Presonus R80 & R65 Series speakers with Ribbon tweeter are the same specs regardless of size with a difference in frequency response. Also if you look at the Eris series of Presonus speakers you'll see all their speakers even the large sized ones resemble the cheaper priced KRK speakers. (Using a Presonus Eris E8 is like using a KRK Rokit G3 4inch speaker based on the information I've referenced in this topic)

Adam T Series speakers are identical regardless of the size of speaker, The Adam Ax series is much like the Rokit series with each speaker completely different, And even though the Adam SV series varies a little each speaker version is based on the same concept for varying sizes.

I could go on but I think this is enough to explain my abstract thought without getting a lot of hateful comments after this post is uploaded to the forum.
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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby zenguitar » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:44 am

Somehow, methinks, this sounds more like an issue with the 'support person' than with the product.

Andy :beamup:
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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby ef37a » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:30 am

zenguitar wrote:Somehow, methinks, this sounds more like an issue with the 'support person' than with the product.

Andy :beamup:

I agree Andy. In any case, I never trust audio companies that have "sexy" names for a product. "Rockit" "Truth", "Pro"! All smack to me of the adpuff man's dead hand in the proceedings and trying to entice a particular market sector (WTGR the "ignorant" newb) .

However, if you log four of those tweeter to woofer power ratios you get. 0.3, 0.18, 0.3 and 0.48. I'm no statician but they all seem to cluster around 0.3? Then, at this end of the market you tend to get what is the most economical component at the time or, what they have a lot of left after marketing *****d up!

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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:31 am

Anyway the ratio of amplifier power is not a good indicator of the relative SPL output from the drivers as they will vary in sensitivity and frequency response, the crossovers will, presumably, take care of balancing things to produce a 'house sound' for each range of monitors.
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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby James Perrett » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:46 am

Argiletonne wrote:The support Person suggested I do not use the EQ at all (verbatim),.

I'd say that the support person is correct. It is far better to optimise the sound by using the correct room treatment and speaker positioning rather than trying to use corrective EQ which will often only work properly in one particular listening position. I don't think I've ever used the alternative settings on my monitors - in fact I'd forgotten that they offered this option until I had to repair them recently.
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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby Mike Stranks » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:51 am

I think there's some truth in what both Andy and James say...

James is right when he says that ultimately one should address room issues at source rather than tweaking speaker EQs, but the fact remains that many very respectable monitors incorporate such controls and SOS reviews often make mention of slight adjustments improving things for that reviewer in that room.

Andy is also on to something when he implies that not all advice received from the employees of retailers or manufacturers is right. Sometimes it is spectacularly wrong! On several occasions I've been contacted by a friend of a friend asking for clarification/corroboration on some 'advice' received. Sadly, in many cases, it is plain wrong... in one particular case recently managing to incorporate four different significant errors in one reply... :shock:
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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby ef37a » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:53 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:I think there's some truth in what both Andy and James say...

James is right when he says that ultimately one should address room issues at source rather than tweaking speaker EQs, but the fact remains that many very respectable monitors incorporate such controls and SOS reviews often make mention of slight adjustments improving things for that reviewer in that room.

Andy is also on to something when he implies that not all advice received from the employees of retailers or manufacturers is right. Sometimes it is spectacularly wrong! On several occasions I've been contacted by a friend of a friend asking for clarification/corroboration on some 'advice' received. Sadly, in many cases, it is plain wrong... in one particular case recently managing to incorporate four different significant errors in one reply... :shock:

Yes Mike, the days of highly trained, well informed (enthusiastic!) staff are I fear long gone. The costs of running any bricks&mortar shop AND paying for good people are largely gone .
Bit OT I know but only a day or so on the news it was stated that service people at eating establishments shou be clued up regarding allergies. WHO are "they" kidding?? The hospitality industry is THE worse paid and anyone with 1/2 a brain uses it as merely a stepping stone to something better!

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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby Argiletonne » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:24 pm

Food and Restaurants definitely off topic of the conversation.

I use to write blogs this is the first time I chose to make my thoughts legible for a public forum regarding the people who might actually have an opinion about what I'm saying.

There is a big problem within society about the perceived value of food workers.

Learning about food whether you like to or not is something that over time gives one a gained responsibility and earned value within the skills and abilities involved in doing that kind of work for other people.

It's irresponsible to make inaccurate judgements about people doing work even if they do not like that work. A responsible person will do a good job even if they do not like their job at the time and perhaps wish for a better position somewhere else.

Take me for instance, I require money to live but do not make money for a living doing something I love. This does not mean I will do a poor quality job but you assume that because someone is working on a stepping stone for the potential to get to somewhere else is un-credible.

All I really wanted to make a point about was to merely seclude the idea that almost anyone cannot take a person serious as a music producer owning these and other low priced speakers. Expensive studios are seen as expensive for the gear they own to produce and refine audio. Anyone that has any common sense has seen the $10,000 speakers embedded in the walls at a major music studio. How is a person beginner, intermediate or professional going to honestly tell people a $200 speaker is going to refine the sound good enough for the million dollar billboard industry run by 100 year old record companies that literally own the most expensive equipment in the world and promote the industry in that way so that all the consumers will act on the front line of firing down any fool attempting to actually succeed in a system controlled and ruled by the wealthy class.

Entertainment and the Arts is luxury to life and historically the wealthiest people in society control that luxury including the individuals who are most likely to live a lavish life while pursuing that career.

That first guy was right about the demeanor and attitude of the marketing man for a company looking to fool people with terms and views to sell the products. That's not why I bought them but simply to argue my own foolish sensibilities I did buy these speakers in the past as my first speaker monitors over other brands because they were the brand of speakers all the people in the industry were advertising for at the time.

I think it shouldn't matter which cheap brand of speaker monitors a person buys at this point in my experience as a music producer. Some of you have confused who I am in your comments and that's okay. All comments appreciated and it's nice to read the varying degrees of thought on the topic.

I do disagree with the numbers and the stats about what the electrical engineers think. The numbers are explained but I'm practical. It's simple; if someone wants to know the proper numbers look at the expensive brands "spec" and compare them to the lower priced products. I did the same thing when I was starting to use compressors (2010) and wasn't sure which settings to use. I simply looked at my favorite compressor that provided a sound quality I liked and wanted to imbue into my music on the computer. I trusted the ratios on that device to be more accurate than the 100% freedom of a VST compressor.

That was the Tubetech CL1B at the time but after emulating those settings for a few years I don't like that compressor and I never use those settings anymore. I don't like denmark stuff anymore and I didn't like it then but they had this clever way to fool me by using my initials in the product "CLB."
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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:37 pm

[Edited]

No; it's Christmas... ;)
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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby ef37a » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:54 am

My comments about food workers were not intended as a slur on the workers themselves so much as the fact that they will not recieve the training necessary to enable them to advise people about potentially dangerous foods. Yes, I agree, you can have a very conciencious person who WANTS to do a good job but if he/she does not get the training or the time in the job to do it? Employers in this country have tended to have the concept "if we train them up we shall have to pay them more or they will get another job". Seen the latest wages v cost of living graphs?

I started as an apprentice but by the time I was 40 no one in domestic electronics was taking any more trainees on. There is no domestic electronics servicing left, not in my town at least.

Yes, you can compare specifications of top line gear and cheaper version and that will tell you something* But speakers, especially monitors are bit of a special case. You can get all the gen' you want (but see *) about frequency response and SPL ratings but NO figure will tell you how accurate they are nor how good the stereo imaging will be.

*There are Lies, Damned Lies and Specifications!

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Re: KRK Rokit Series Speakers Theory/Philosophy Deconstructed "I didn't mix a grammy award winning recor

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:58 am

Argiletonne wrote:I took notice of how each speaker had a different value of watts for the tweeter and woofer(s) of the class of speakers. This is probably one of the most telling things about this brand. Each size of speaker you buy will give you a very different stereo image of your music within their own brand and own line of speakers.

There is no connection whatsoever between the nominal amp power feeding each driver in an active speaker, and its stereo imaging characteristics.

Stereo imaging is affected by many things, including the width of the baffle, the placement of the drivers within that baffle, the design of the crossover, the dispersion of the drivers, and the placement of the speakers and the location of objects nearby... to name just the most significant... But I can assure you that amp power is totally irrelevant!

As you can see by those numbers each speaker is completely different within their own line of speakers and they never found a way to standarize the tweeter to woofer formula for the Rokit line of speakers.

Without knowing the relative sensitivities of the woofer and tweeter, a knowledge of their nominal amp power is meaningless... You can only 'standardize' the woofer/tweeter power ratio id you can standardise the driver sensitivity ratio too, and while that is possible in some cases, it's just not in many others.

It seems to me that you are focusing your attention in misleading directions.

H
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