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Self promotion

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:35 am

This is just a thought that stems from things said on a number of threads over the years. It's always been the rule in the forum at large that self promotion is not allowed (the sig block is the most you're allowed) and I completely agree with this. The rule also used to apply to companies until the New Products & Industry News subforum was added where firms were encouraged to promote their wares (with the proviso that they should still keep promotion clear of the rest of the forum). I think that has worked well.

It has left a slight anomaly, though, in that businesses have somewhere to promote their wares but personal members do not. Declaration of interest here, my own band Eagle Alley has just released a new CD and I'd love to give it a good plug. So, would it be a good idea to have a subforum similar to New Products & Industry News but reserved for the personal members to give their news and information? You could call it Forum Members' News, perhaps.

What do others think?

CC
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Re: Self promotion

Postby garrettendi » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:58 am

+1

I know we're allowed to post links to content to get feedback (a rule I use) but it'd be nice to share my work not for feedback, but just to publicise it.

CC's idea has a lot of merit
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Re: Self promotion

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:29 pm

It's not just to publicise it but also to give and get a broader idea of what I and others are doing, I think. Of course you might have people join just to push something but they're already covered by the first three posts moderated rule.

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Re: Self promotion

Postby ManFromGlass » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:15 pm

It would be nice to know performance dates as well for those members who still put themselves out there.
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Re: Self promotion

Postby blinddrew » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:35 pm

Hmmm, a tentative +1 from me. Whilst I would definitely like to hear what other forumites are up to i do have similar concerns to Sam.
But if it were all contained in a specific sub-forum would that be a problem? Or would there be a proliferation of nonsense posts just to get initial approval followed by a flurry of promotion and then silence?
Would it become a nightmare for the mods?
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Re: Self promotion

Postby zenguitar » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:54 pm

Just a quick post to let you know that you are being heard. And looking forward to hearing more views and opinions.

Andy :beamup:
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Re: Self promotion

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:58 pm

a) Contained as it would be within a subforum I wouldn't have thought the promotion opportunities would be such as to have SEO outfits gagging to get their stuff in there.

b) If it did prove to be a problem then the subforum could be closed.

ManFromGlass wrote:It would be nice to know performance dates as well for those members who still put themselves out there.

I hadn't thought about that but yes, it would.

Thanks, Andy. I agree, the more people express opinions either way the better the judgement will be as to whether this would be worth doing.

Cheers,

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Re: Self promotion

Postby James Perrett » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:04 pm

One thought would be to just start a couple of threads in the Lounge - one for releases and another for gigs.
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Re: Self promotion

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:14 pm

That might work, especially if they were stickies. With a subforum, though, you can put a decent bit of description as to what it's about, and it might also be easier to find posts you were actively looking for and to have discussions about interesting ones (I'm thinking of the Elf's recent concert and the discussion that followed that, whether you could accommodate several of those in one thread I don't know).

It occurs to me you could make the subforum invisible to non-members like the Lounge is, which would kill the interest of the SEO people because they just wouldn't know it was there.

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Re: Self promotion

Postby Dave B » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:51 pm

Sub forum gets my vote. At the very least it's a place for the mods to move the increasing number of people who just post links to their youtube channel vids rather than have them spam the main forums.
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Re: Self promotion

Postby desmond » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:10 pm

While I have no problem having a self-contained place where people can self-promote, I'd personally be wary of clogging up the latest/active posts etc with "This weeks gig by my band is at..." or "Hey, we just did a YouTube video at..." and so on, as I can envisage that my (and many others) primary way of checking in with the forums could easily become overrun and effectively useless.

Which would be bad for me...
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Re: Self promotion

Postby CS70 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:42 pm

My understanding is that the Musician Lounge's already "the pub" of the place. Isn't that normal that, when sitting at a table there, one can take out his latest shiny CD production and pass it around to friends? Does it need be anything more than that? (and is there any doubt that it's permitted)?

Sure, the ML is not "public" - so the scope for promotion is limited. But somehow I am not sure that SOS forum, as much as I love it, is a possible road to fame.. :D

As a note, I'd find a single big thread quite off-putting, as the forum medium is not made for that kind of never ending list (nor its navigation capabilities, design etc). Much better individual posts in the ML, and if someone gets a little bit too excited, it's not hard to just say..
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Re: Self promotion

Postby Kwackman » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:56 pm

desmond wrote:I'd personally be wary of clogging up the latest/active posts etc with "This weeks gig by my band is at..." or "Hey, we just did a YouTube video at..." and so on, as I can envisage that my (and many others) primary way of checking in with the forums could easily become overrun and effectively useless.

This would be my fear too.
If there was a way to keep these posts off the "Latest posts" list, then fine.
We used to be able to exclude any posts from the Lounge in the old forum, which I don't believe is possible now (please correct me if I'm wrong!) which might have been a useful way round it.

I do follow the links to some peoples music, either in their sig or in their profile.
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Re: Self promotion

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:59 pm

ML posts don't appear in the 'latest posts' list in the RH sidebar.

I quite often wonder what other members are up to musically, it's easy enough to look at websites when they are in the sig or follow YT links but a specific place where we could simply link to our music or gigs would be nice and better for those of us who don't have a website or YT channel.

My vote would be for a Self Promotion sub forum with the same format as the Lounge, i.e. that it is only visible to forumites.
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Re: Self promotion

Postby ManFromGlass » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:19 pm

My band performs once a year and has a 1 page website that hasn't been upgraded for many years. We don't do any social media stuff. We are in Canada and the music is so odd that there is a very limited audience. That being said I am seeing more newer generation people coming out - not because those my age are dying off. (Well maybe :headbang: )

So a gig post from me would be of interest to a small number of forumites but on the other hand it would be 1 small post. If I ever bother to figure it out I might consider including a photo of the band in my SOS post but that's all the bandwidth I would take up. If that was a concern. Others mileage will vary.
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Re: Self promotion

Postby Folderol » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:10 pm

I rather like the idea - especially if people can give dates and locations so we can come along if it's not too far.
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Re: Self promotion

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:46 pm

desmond wrote:as I can envisage that my (and many others) primary way of checking in with the forums could easily become overrun and effectively useless.

Fair point. I personally don't use "View Unread Posts" so your issue didn't occur to me. FWIW my belief is that after an initial flurry of activity the subforum would settle down and not cause you problems. I could be wrong, of course and for that and other reasons if the mods proposed to have the subforum for a trial period I wouldn't object.

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Re: Self promotion

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:58 pm

Kwackman wrote:
desmond wrote:I'd personally be wary of clogging up the latest/active posts etc with "This weeks gig by my band is at..." or "Hey, we just did a YouTube video at..." and so on, as I can envisage that my (and many others) primary way of checking in with the forums could easily become overrun and effectively useless.

This would be my fear too.

I totally agree with this, and have also abandoned plenty of Facebook groups that ended up as endless lists of self-promotion. Some people think making a video of them unpacking their new synth from its box is newsworthy :headbang:

If we have a dedicated sub-forum and tasteful users it might work, but there's still a decision to be made about gigs slowing falling off the bottom of the list, while music releases needing to be stay around for longer (stickies for a month maybe?)


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Re: Self promotion

Postby Folderol » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:24 pm

If it was made only visible to registered and logged in users ( like the lounge) maybe the numpties wouldn't even know it was there.
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Re: Self promotion

Postby zenguitar » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:11 am

Ahh!! You would be amazed at how much effort those numpties put in to being such numpties :)

When a spammer/abuser creates their account and then signs in to the forum they can see the Lounge. And because they are are so lacking in knowledge about the subjects of the main forums they are tempted to post their spam in existing topics in the Lounge. Because of the approval process the mods can nuke them so they rarely slip through to public view, but the Lounge is definitely targeted.

To be honest, the blatant, professional, spammers are trivial to deal with because they are so glaringly obvious and clearly off-topic. We get the rare smart one who comes up with a new trick to try and sneak their spam link through, but the vast majority comes from poor people in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Vietnam using a cheap Chinese smartphone and making a meagre living posting spam for peanuts.

The ones we have problems with are the enthusiastic self promoters working hard to build their brand within the music/tech industry. The ones who post with the sole intention of driving traffic to their blog, YouTube Channel, tuition website. And the reason they are such a problem is that they are stupid. Stupid because they see the SOS forums as a resource to exploit, and doubly stupid because they fail to recognise them as a community they should embrace as like minded souls in join in.

There is an ancient topic called "Show us your website" (or something like that), it dates from a time when having a website was a recently new tool and members could share their websites and compare notes. Now having a website is passé, it's what us oldies have while the Yoof have moved on. But from time to time we get spammers using it to promote Plant Hire in Dubai.

And the point is that that topic was once very relevant and useful, but now it is a spam magnet.

I can REALLY see the benefit of having a Forum or sub-Forum where those loyal, helpful and friendly members can promote their latest endeavours. CC is right to raise the issue in this topic, it does seem unfair that the very people who play by the rules and contribute the most to the forums appear disadvantaged compared to businesses and fly by posters working their signature links.

So, I would suggest that the way to make it work is to ensure that the only way you can post in such a forum is if you have established a track record as a contributor here at SOS forums. That keeps out the fly-by posters and spamers and offers a "thank you" to those who join in the chat and answer the questions.

I am not sure whetheror not this is possible, Ian would need to make enquiries, but it might work. We can hide the Lounge from non-members, there is also a mods forum that is hidden from regular members, and we can force new members with less than 3 posts to have their posts approved. And we can create labels (like 'Jedi' posters) depending on how many posts a member has made.

So... If it is possible, how about a forum where members who have made a certain number of posts are free to to make announcements about new releases, gigs, collaborations, projects, etc.? Not only would that include CC's new release, Elf's recent album and gigs, and CS70's projects, but it would also include Man From Glass's annual gig.

If that sounds like a runner there are two questions we need to ask. The 1st is "Is this technically possible Ian?" and the second is "what do people think would be would be an appropriate number of posts in the SOS forums to qualify for the 'Member promo Forum' ?"

Phew!! That was nearly an hour in the making.

Any thoughts?

Andy :beamup:
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