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Audiofuse 8pre

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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Sam Inglis » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:32 pm

There is another issue here that hasn't been raised yet. The industry as a whole seems likely to embrace the MIDI 2.0 protocol in the relatively near future, and this no longer supports DIN (or, presumably, mini-jack) connectors. So it's not just audio interface manufacturers who are making MIDI sockets obsolete, it's the MIDI community as a whole.
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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby ef37a » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:37 pm

Sam Inglis wrote:There is another issue here that hasn't been raised yet. The industry as a whole seems likely to embrace the MIDI 2.0 protocol in the relatively near future, and this no longer supports DIN (or, presumably, mini-jack) connectors. So it's not just audio interface manufacturers who are making MIDI sockets obsolete, it's the MIDI community as a whole.

I was going to say Sam that I heard MIDI was being re-vamped and upgraded but I know little about it.
So, if not DIN how will the 2.0 protocol communicate?

Ok, quick shufty, over USB but kit is shown with TWO cables going to a laptop. How many B ports are we going to need?!

Is there a MIDI 2.0 article in gestation?
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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Sam Inglis » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:27 pm

I'm not sure the dust has quite settled enough for us to cover MIDI 2.0 in depth at this moment but I'm keeping an eye on it!

I presume it will be agnostic as regards physical connectors, but will require a data rate that isn't supported by the MIDI controller circuits used in DIN or mini-jack links.
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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:14 pm

ef37a wrote:Those that have sorted their rigs sans MIDI cables will not of course agree but there are surely many who have a simple controller setup and just want to plug the damn thing in!

And there are plenty of other interfaces that will allow them to do just that. The 'fuse may not meet their specific needs... but when did any one product meet everyone's specific needs anyway?

And My rig is not sans 'old-school' MIDI cables. There's lots of them... but I don't interface MIDI via the audio interface, it goes via a dedicated USB-connected MIDI hub.

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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Folderol » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:26 pm

A properly implemented MIDI 2 device is supposed to be quite agnostic as to fittings, and in the provisional spec backward compatibility is a requirement. However, I don't doubt for one minute that the DIN plug will be conveniently forgotten, and possibly the connector of choice will be RG45, rather than USB

It is supposed to work like fax machine protocols, try a negotiation, and if it doesn't get a response work at the minimum state - which for MIDI would be MIDI 1
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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby ef37a » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:22 pm

Folderol wrote:A properly implemented MIDI 2 device is supposed to be quite agnostic as to fittings, and in the provisional spec backward compatibility is a requirement. However, I don't doubt for one minute that the DIN plug will be conveniently forgotten, and possibly the connector of choice will be RG45, rather than USB

It is supposed to work like fax machine protocols, try a negotiation, and if it doesn't get a response work at the minimum state - which for MIDI would be MIDI 1

Typo Will? RJ 45? I like them! What would the bit rate be for MIDI 2? I mean, SPDIF works pretty well over RCA and XLR, cannot see DIN being any more lossy?

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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Wonks » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:30 pm

RG45 is the postcode area for Broadmoor. A Freudian slip back to his past. ;)
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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Folderol » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:33 pm

Just looked that up :o
So it is! Scary stuff.

Data rate for MIDI2 is undefined. It's whatever the transport (and the devices) can support.
I can't find it now, but there is a vid online somewhere, with one of the guys involved talking about it all.
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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Martin Walker » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:36 pm

Folderol wrote:Genuine midi sockets have two quite important things going for them.

They are optocoupled, so no earth loops.
They don't magically become different ports next time you boot up.

Oh, and a third one. They are as rugged as hell, and don't go wonky with repeated plug/unplug sycles.

I do so agree with all those points Will - and perhaps I was unlucky, but the first USB MIDI connections I used tended to be unreliable with anything other than notes/controller data, or as dodgy with some USB controller chips as Firewire used to be.

So where I have an option I still always plug in a proper MIDI cable rather than a USB one, just in case :headbang:


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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby ef37a » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:30 pm

Martin Walker wrote:
Folderol wrote:Genuine midi sockets have two quite important things going for them.

They are optocoupled, so no earth loops.
They don't magically become different ports next time you boot up.

Oh, and a third one. They are as rugged as hell, and don't go wonky with repeated plug/unplug sycles.

I do so agree with all those points Will - and perhaps I was unlucky, but the first USB MIDI connections I used tended to be unreliable with anything other than notes/controller data, or as dodgy with some USB controller chips as Firewire used to be.

So where I have an option I still always plug in a proper MIDI cable rather than a USB one, just in case :headbang:


Martin

Thank you Martin!
I missed one, the TC pedal in the current issue had DIN ports.

So, who is going to tell RME. Novation, TC that they are a load of dinosaurs?

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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:39 pm

I think we'll leave that one to you Dave, as you're the dog with the bone about it! :D

I still don't really get the beef... if someone wants MIDI sockets, the 8pre clearly isn't the right product for the job, but there are plenty of other multichannel interfaces that do meet that specific requirement. And for those that either don't need MIDI sockets , or are using MIDI-over-USB, the 8Pre is a tasty interface that might be worthy of consideration...

I love it when manufacturers create products that offer different sets of facilities, rather than all copying each other slavishly... ;-)
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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby James Perrett » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:22 pm

I really don't understand why using a separate MIDI interface is such a problem. OK, so it adds another small box and another USB cable but it makes absolutely no difference software wise as audio and MIDI are treated separately anyway by the operating systems that I know about.
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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby ef37a » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:48 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I think we'll leave that one to you Dave, as you're the dog with the bone about it! :D

I still don't really get the beef... if someone wants MIDI sockets, the 8pre clearly isn't the right product for the job, but there are plenty of other multichannel interfaces that do meet that specific requirement. And for those that either don't need MIDI sockets , or are using MIDI-over-USB, the 8Pre is a tasty interface that might be worthy of consideration...

I love it when manufacturers create products that offer different sets of facilities, rather than all copying each other slavishly... ;-)

Aww Hugh! JUST as I was getting some converts!

Ok, I am willing to let it lie ('til the next AI over 1/2 bag comes along sans MIDI!)
I have also just ordered a Behringer interface for my son. The 204 OF COURSE!

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Re: Audiofuse 8pre

Postby Rich Hanson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:24 am

It's not an issue for me, but I can understand why it would be an issue for some.

I quite like the fact that my KingKorg and VC340 effectively have MIDI interfaces when connected to the computer over USB. When I was working totally in the box, I specifically chose a MIDI controller keyboard that as well as USB also had MIDI I/O in case of future expansion.
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