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Hugh's Studio SOS

Postby jaminem » Fri May 22, 2020 8:52 am

Image

Loved the 'eat your own food' Studio SOS featuring Hugh's studio, had no idea he was such a synth nut!! [see SOS June 2020 issue - Forum Admin]

Was interesting to see the positioning of his Neumann KH310's - I purchased a pair myself following the excellent reviews they got most notably from Hugh and Max, but in order to get them into the 11 degree toe in described in the manual and the equilateral triangle positioning one is told to have, mine have to be quite narrow in relation to my listening position.

I note that Hugh's are considerably wider than mine but his listening position is a similar distance from computer monitor, making more of an isosceles triangle - was wondering if this is just compromise due to space restrictions, or its a perfectly fine way of positioning them?

Only asking as it would be much more practical for me to have mine a bit wider but I don't want to compromise performance.

For info my room is treated, considerably larger than Hugh's but nowhere near as symmetrical and I have Sonarworks which makes a huge difference , if that makes any difference to my question

Thanks...

[Forum Admin added photo and link]
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Re: Hugh's Studio SOS

Postby desmond » Fri May 22, 2020 9:00 am

jaminem wrote:Loved the 'eat your own food' Studio SOS featuring Hugh's studio

Yes, I enjoyed that too. Nice to know that even Hugh has been tolerating uneven bass response over the years - and it shows that as long as it's not *too* bad, it's possible to work around if you're smart about it (headphones, sanity checks on other systems elsewhere - particularly other systems and/or people you can trust etc).

jaminem wrote:I note that Hugh's are considerably wider than mine but his listening position is a similar distance from computer monitor, making more of an isosceles triangle - was wondering if this is just compromise due to space restrictions, or its a perfectly fine way of positioning them?

He does note in the article that they are currently not optimally positioned until some different stands turn up...
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Re: Hugh's Studio SOS

Postby jaminem » Fri May 22, 2020 9:03 am

desmond wrote:
He does note in the article that they are currently not optimally positioned until some different stands turn up...

Even so...looking at those 2 monitors they are still gonna be pretty wide apart...
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Re: Hugh's Studio SOS

Postby Dub til you drop » Fri May 22, 2020 9:12 am

It's quite common for nearfield monitors to be further apart than the 'optimum' equilateral triangle. In many photos of 'big' studios you'll see the the NS10s or equivalent are perched near either end of the desk. Of course that's partly so they don't spoil the view through the glass, but they still work fine like that.

It isn't going to matter whilst you're tracking, they're not going to lead you astray.

If you mix with them like that, move your seat back to the correct position from time to time to check that the stereo image is what you were hoping for.

It isn't perfect, but that's the real world for you.
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Re: Hugh's Studio SOS

Postby desmond » Fri May 22, 2020 9:14 am

Never mind about the monitor positioning, I'm still trying to work out how the rear wall has both an exterior window facing onto the drive, and right next to it, an interior door to the rest of the house... :headbang:
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Re: Hugh's Studio SOS

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri May 22, 2020 9:27 am

jaminem wrote:...in order to get them into the 11 degree toe in described in the manual and the equilateral triangle positioning one is told to have, mine have to be quite narrow in relation to my listening position.

These are guidelines, not rules, and every monitoring situation will be different.

My speakers are, indeed , a little too far apart, although it's deceptive as it's the positions of tweeter/midrange drivers that matter, not the woofers on the outside! They are where they are basically because that's as close-in as I can get those specific speaker stands, so it is a bit of a compromise... But in fact the arrangement is close to an equilateral triangle when I lean back for critical listening, and I prefer being slightly inside the triangle when working as I find the slightly exaggerated stereo width helpful.

Rest assured, though, that I have plans for different (custom) stands in the fullness of time which will bring the speakers a little closer in to the desk. You can't rush these kinds of projects.... :lol:

Only asking as it would be much more practical for me to have mine a bit wider but I don't want to compromise performance.

Then try them wider -- either by moving the stands or by swapping the speakers around so the tweeters are on the outsides! (The latter may compromise stereo imaging, but it's as easy thing to try!) You won't break them by moving them around a bit, and if you don't like the results you can easily put them back where they were!

It's always worth experimenting with positions relative to side and back walls, and in regards to their overall spacing, as well as with the toe angle... small changes can make big differences!
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Re: Hugh's Studio SOS

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri May 22, 2020 9:33 am

desmond wrote:Nice to know that even Hugh has been tolerating uneven bass response over the years - and it shows that as long as it's not *too* bad, it's possible to work around if you're smart about it.

Everyone who works in a small room has bass issues to some extent! I've been in rooms where there is no bass at all at the listening position.

Thankfully mine was never that bad, but it certainly had issues that I was very aware of... but there are easy workarounds. The refurbished room isn't 'perfect' by any means -- it never could be -- but it is very much improved and I'm finding my confidence growing over no longer needing to refer quite so assiduously to other listening rooms (although I do still check with headphones).

H
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Re: Hugh's studio SOS

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 am

jaminem wrote:Even so...looking at those 2 monitors they are still gonna be pretty wide apart...

The only practical issue with the wider baseline width is that the phantom centre image tends to be unstable, and so slight movements side-to-side result in central sound sources moving to one side or the other. However, it's trivially simple to re-centre myself, which re-centres the centre items, and then I have a glorious stable stereo image spread out in front of me.

It's a small compromise, but one I can work with quite happily.
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Re: Hugh's studio SOS

Postby jaminem » Fri May 22, 2020 9:48 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote: although it's deceptive as it's the positions of tweeter/midrange drivers that matter, not the woofers on the outside!!

Oh yes, I didn't notice that they are the 'wrong' way round....according to the manual...

Makes a bit more sense now, I did try moving mine about recently but I guess I have settled in the right position for me, was just a point of interest really. I suppose that I just expected everything to be a close to perfect as possible because its your room.

I probably forgot that you're subject to the same restrictions of budget, space, partners etc as the rest of us and that you are in fact human and not some audio dictionary robot person :lol:
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Re: Hugh's studio SOS

Postby Kwackman » Fri May 22, 2020 9:51 am

jaminem wrote:you are in fact human and not some audio dictionary robot person :lol:

You were thinking of Hugh Robojohns.....
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Re: Hugh's Studio SOS

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri May 22, 2020 9:57 am

desmond wrote:Never mind about the monitor positioning, I'm still trying to work out how the rear wall has both an exterior window facing onto the drive, and right next to it, an interior door to the rest of the house... :headbang:

:-) It is a very odd house layout!

Here's part of the plan of that corner. So the door opens into the hallway, and the front door of the house is just to the left of the studio door, because the studio room extends out into the drive -- the garage (which isn't shown at the bottom of the plan for some reason best known to the Laing architects!) is attached to the (right-hand) wall of the studio room.

House layout.jpg
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Re: Hugh's studio SOS

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri May 22, 2020 10:02 am

jaminem wrote:Oh yes, I didn't notice that they are the 'wrong' way round....according to the manual...

Like I said, guidelines, not rules! And actually, I think the imaging is better with the tweeters on the insides anyway!

I suppose that I just expected everything to be as close to perfect as possible because it's your room.

Ha! I wish...

I probably forgot that you're subject to the same restrictions of budget, space, partners etc as the rest of us and that you are in fact human...

I'm afraid so. Another myth squashed! :lol: :wtf: :think: But I do happen to be blessed with the world's most tolerant and understanding partner in Mrs R!
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Re: Hugh's studio SOS

Postby desmond » Fri May 22, 2020 10:05 am

Thanks - that makes a bit more sense now!

It's a nice room - new gear is nice and all, but there's something especially nice about a working environment upgrade, particularly in the case of studios where they involve sound improvements too - double whammy! :thumbup:

I really enjoyed the article - thanks!
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Re: Hugh's studio SOS

Postby Chet Leeway » Fri May 22, 2020 11:27 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
desmond wrote:Never mind about the monitor positioning, I'm still trying to work out how the rear wall has both an exterior window facing onto the drive, and right next to it, an interior door to the rest of the house... :headbang:

:-) It is a very odd house layout!

Here's part of the plan of that corner. So the door opens into the hallway, and the front door of the house is just to the left of the studio door, because the studio room extends out into the drive -- the garage (which isn't shown at the bottom of the plan for some reason best known to the Laing architects!) is attached to the (right-hand) wall of the studio room.

House layout.jpg

Slightly odd, but optimal for smuggling in audio gear. Delivery through window, straight into rack, better half blissfully unaware.
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Re: Hugh's studio SOS

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri May 22, 2020 11:29 am

My pleasure! There's some more detail and information in some extra box-outs at the end of the web version:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/studio-sos-making-small-room-sound-good

And I'm in the process of taking some more pics now that I've finished wiring the patchbays and adding the final bits and bobs... I'll post them here later today.
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