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Adding to live recording

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Adding to live recording

Postby Folderol » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:44 am

Some time back, a friend gave me an audio track of him playing guitar and singing, inviting me to add backing. I've worked with him several times before, and usually he just wants some background pads with occasional simple counter melodies. This time he also wanted a bass line and percussion.

The track was about 4 minutes long, and as usual, he'd just practiced it a few times then hit record. The result is there were fairly slow timing variations, not really noticeable when just listening through.

The pads were simple enough. The bass was rather more difficult as I had to nudge notes back and forth to line up.

Percussion was a nightmare! Even though it's quite a simple line, getting it so that it stayed with the vocals and the guitar arpeggios without the differences being noticeable still isn't quite right. I even resorted to just missing some beats.

So, how do others deal with this situation? I can't ask him to record it again, besides he never works with a click track, so the same issue would crop up.
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby blinddrew » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:23 am

Create a tempo map?
Not something i've ever done but should be possible in most DAWs. I can't remember what you use?
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby BJG145 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:20 am

Very difficult to add percussion to tracks with poor timing. I'd just try and play it live as best you can, and if it doesn't sound any good, tell him it would need to be done again.
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby James Perrett » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:19 pm

I'd try playing the percussion live to see if it could be made to fit although some songs just don't work with percussion as the song timing just has to slide around to sound right.
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Folderol » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:54 pm

Thanks very much for your thoughts people. As I said, it was a while ago now. It's a cover and the guy is very happy with the result. It's just me noticing what's wrong I guess.
At risk of exposing myself to ridicule :blush: it's here.
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Martin Walker » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:49 pm

Folderol wrote:At risk of exposing myself to ridicule :blush: it's here.

Sounds fine to me Will ! :thumbup:

Shame there's so much reverb on the guitar, but I take it that's how it arrived - like the playing though (and in particular those harmonics in the solo! 8-) ) The vocal performance is also lovely (reminds me a little of Roy Orbison)

Your percussion fits well timing-wise, my only comment would be that the kick sound is a little dry compared with the rest of the mix, so to my ears it sticks out a little (because the dry-ish kick sounds 'forward', while all the reverb on the guitars push those right back).

Your bass is also great, complementing the guitars nicely, while the pads fit in beautifully - I doubt that many people would realise that they were both in put in afterwards :clap:


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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Folderol » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:39 pm

Thanks for listening and commenting.

Dry kick. Yes absolutely right, and I didn't think of it at all! It would have been easy to add a touch of reverb as well.

Hihat timing. This is weird. I can listen to it several times and think it fine, then the next time it sounds slightly out. Play the drum track by itself and there are fairly obvious variations from time to time, but if I straighten them out, then when it's played with the rest it definitely sounds out when it isn't :?

I might do a bit more playing for my own satisfaction, but Ged is quite happy with it, so I won't change the recorded version.
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Forum Admin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:50 pm

Which DAW do you use?
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Forum Admin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:53 pm

This 7-minute YT video shows how you could achieve it in PreSonus Studio One - though most DAWs have this functionality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNCWEjS8aJ0
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby blinddrew » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:13 pm

Folderol wrote:Hihat timing. This is weird. I can listen to it several times and think it fine, then the next time it sounds slightly out. Play the drum track by itself and there are fairly obvious variations from time to time, but if I straighten them out, then when it's played with the rest it definitely sounds out when it isn't :?
On my first listen I couldn't hear anything amiss, but giving it a closer listen there were just a couple of hits that seemed slightly off.
I have no solutions to this though I'm afraid.
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Folderol » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:16 pm

DAW choice? Well that's a good question. The thing is I don't use a DAW as such.

My setup is rather primitive, and consists of a MIDI sequencer that can also store and play audio. All the control elements are on the MIDI side only, but that works perfectly for me as I use MIDI controlled synths (mostly Yoshimi of course).

However, this means I have no way to 'pull' the audio, and all adjustments must be to the MIDI side. To make a final mix I play all tracks together and record that. Very occasionally I might then do a bit of trimming in something like Audacity.
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby blinddrew » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:03 pm

Well if you will make things difficult for yourself... ;)
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Forum Admin » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:28 pm

Intriguing... so which MIDI sequencer do you use?
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Folderol » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:40 pm

Forum Admin wrote:Intriguing... so which MIDI sequencer do you use?
Rosegarden, details here.
It's Linux only, but then so is Yoshimi :)
... and there is outline info about that here.
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Wonks » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:24 pm

But he mainly inputs sequences in machine code on the fly... ;)
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:57 pm

Wonks wrote:But he mainly inputs sequences in machine code on the fly... ;)

It's been specially built to carry this code:

Image


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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Folderol » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:14 pm

Wonks wrote:But he mainly inputs sequences in machine code on the fly... ;)
Nonono. You're thinking of pure data. It's a fantastic (cross-platform) system, but way above my capabilities.
In 2013 there was an amazing 20 minute live performance at LAC graz
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Re: Adding to live recording

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:27 pm

Folderol wrote:Thanks very much for your thoughts people. As I said, it was a while ago now. It's a cover and the guy is very happy with the result. It's just me noticing what's wrong I guess.
At risk of exposing myself to ridicule :blush: it's here.

Just listened to this and it is lovely, well done Will and Ged :clap:
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