You are here

getting bands to turn down their amps

Knowledgebase READ-ONLY collection of topics moved from other sub-forums to preserve them from auto-pruning. Only Moderators can start/reply or move topics into this archive.

getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby jimdrake » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:41 am

I spend quite some time doing sound at the student union at my university for live band nights and things of that nature. we have a lot of very good kit and a pa that is of a suitable power rating for the venue, although the shape of the room is not ideal.

however, we always have problems with loud guitar amps. the height of the stage means that the cabs tend to point straight at the audience's ears. they are rarely quiet enough as to need reinforcement by the pa.

when we ask the bands to turn down their amps we are always told that the sound is different at lower volumes and that they like the sound at higher levels. this is the typical response you get from a guitarist but i have yet to be shown that this is true.

is there anyone out there with more expereince that has found a solution to this problem?

i think it would be best to have a rack full of pod type boxes. we could say to the bands that they cannot use their amps on stage during the gig but they can set them up just to look cool. we can spend as much time as they want tweaking the pods to make it sound as close to their favourite amp as possible. would this persuade the bands with the biggest egos?
User avatar
jimdrake
Poster
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby alan elliot » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:45 am

One option is to use a power soak.
power soak
These devices work by placing a series of resistors between the output of a high-level (100-W) tube amp and a speaker cabinet, which "soaks up" an amp's output - though it can still be pinned at maximum volume, for full distortion effect. Thus you get the great sound with a lower volume.
Using the Pods is a viable alternative but you'll need good monitoring for the band. I Engineer for a band that uses Pods live and they sound great, plus with the Sound diver software you can get some really cool f**ked up sounds.
Cheers
Alan
alan elliot
New here
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby Octopussy » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:47 am

If someone said that I had to use a POD then I wouldn't play there!

Musicians need to work in the zone that lets them perform. As soon as you start messing with their amps then they will be worried! How many venues have I played where the sound engineer wants to get the band on without making the stage area give adiquate info to the band members. All they want is to mix FOH. Do you even know what it's like to play a gig as a three piece and not be able to hear the guitars or vocals! What is it like on stage left i.e. can you hear the other band members across the other side of a drumkit?

Good live sound engineers are rare! POD's!!! You numb nuts!

Insted why don't you build safe and stable platforms to raise the speakerboxes to ear height for the amped up musos?
Alternatively you could instist on putting quad boxes and the like off-stage and run a mic from there. Do you even have monitors?

I tell you, I've played venues where all the treble disappears from the stage area. Now as a bassist it feels like all the articulation and attack from your fingers has gone! On top of this the energy of the sound for the band is missing and you feel tired and you overplay i.e. dig in to your instrument too much. Insted of interfereing with musos using PODs try to focus on the on stage sound for a good performance and make the stage area work for the musicians!

As soon as my main band can afford it we'll train someone up to replace guys like you at venues for damn sure!

Regards,
bassdude
Octopussy
Regular
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby Guy Johnson » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:01 pm

Yes. Point the cabs at the players. Then they get the screechy trebly gunk that the audience normally gets (that the guitarist can't hear)

Bassdude, Jimdrake was only trying to sort sounds out, without realising that amps are part of the instument. Seems like he wants good sound, and there are many bands with ludicrous levels on the amps, so it's then impossible to get any balance at at all!

But loads of bands will turn down, if you point out that OK, you may sacrifice your individual sound a bit, but the music and the band will come across much better, if the amp is quieter.

It all comes down to the band and engineer trusting one another.

G
User avatar
Guy Johnson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 12:00 am
Location: North Pembrokeshire
This is my few words.

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby jimdrake » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:35 pm

bassdude, that is exactly the attitude we are often faced with.

i understand the point about wanting to fiddle with the band's amps and how this may put them off. the point i was making was how to offer this system in a way that could persuade them of the huge benefits. alan points out that he has used this method and is pleased with the sound.

the power soak could be a good thing to try, however, not all bands turn up with separate amp head and cab systems.

your post is insulting in many ways.

it implies that i have no knowledge of what it is like to play in a band. in fact i have been playing drums and percussion for about 6-7 years and have played in a variety of different groups from symphony orchestras and jazz bands to death metal style rock noise bands. i have a grade 5 music theory and grade 8 performance under my belt if you want to be picky. i have played in many venues with little to no monitoring and a crap (~500w) pa.

you also imply that myself and the friends i work with are poor sound engineers. most of the sound engineers (including me) working at the union are on a music and sound recording course that is regarded by very high standards throughout the music industry. we run many events both at the union and at outside gigs, and have a huge amount of experience between all of us. for more info check here: http://ussu-crew.co.uk/ (this site looks crap and is out of date but has some useful info on)

you also imply that the equipment we use is not good enough (less of an insult, but you know what i mean.)

we always run sparate monitor and foh mixes for big gigs.

for monitors we have a 40ch soundcraft mh3 desk. normally we run 3-4 pairs of monitors as well as a drum fill. all run with active crossovers. i'm not sure about the power rating but i would guess about 500-1000w per each monitor pair and around 1kw for the drum fill. i don't know the specs so i may be wrong.

for foh we run a similar spec yamaha desk with a renkus heinz pa. each stack for the pa uses a box with 2 high, 2 mid and 2 low drivers and a box with 2 sub drivers. all run with active crossovers. we have three of these stacks each side of the stage. again, i would guess around 8-10kw for the total power rating.

although the raised/angled guitar cabs are a good idea, the point i was trying to make more was the COMMUNICATION of the idea with the bands. Guy Johnson said that 'loads of bands will turn down, if you point out that OK, you may sacrifice your individual sound a bit, but the music and the band will come across much better, if the amp is quieter.'

this is more of the point that i was making, in that, in my experience this is not true.
User avatar
jimdrake
Poster
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby Octopussy » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:03 pm

Hi jimdrake,

Sorry for venting but the POD thing suggested that you aren't very empathic with musicians. I've had countless gigs where the soundguy is trying to prove their worth by either coming across all authoritarian, bullying or trying to be a member of the band. So often the scenario with these little Hitler’s is that a musicians experiences colour his gigging set up. If you interfere with how a muso pulls through a gig that has an awful stage environment with poor on stage acoustics and no care given by the SE for setting up any monitoring then this is how musos get over that situation. No just through inexperience but through gigs where they've had no alternative but to crank things up to get the part of their sound that allows them to articulate on the instrument.

Guy Johnson made the point about the amp being a part of the instrument. This is a fundamental thing. Hey Mark Knopfler I don't want you to use that Soldano amp ere plug into my POD we'll approximate your tone with that etc etc.

To put it in drum terms... imagine saying to a drummer those cymbals are a bit piercing so I want you to use these Roland V cymbals instead! Or I don't want you to tune your toms to the room but instead I'll attach some triggers to your kit and use an Alesis DM4!

As for the power soak thing... they are quite expensive, so what would you do with a 2 or 3 guitar band?

Here in Melbourne there are sound engineers all over the place. SAE and other places are churning them out. And for the most part even the ones who are trained for the live side of things all want to go for the glory of FOH without taking the time to get the stage happening. I was speaking strongly to you to make things stick in your head!

As a muso I want to replace guys like you because they...

Don't know what my band wishes are in terms of presenting their sound ie getting the kind of mix we want.

They suggest PODs!

They make you compromise your performance by not looking after the stage environment enough or changing thing that work for me to suit themselves.

Their egos extend beyond making the PA work for the room and think they are artistically creating a FOH mix... to their own aesthetic idea. De-emphasising elements in the sound that are fundamental to the individual musos enjoyment of the sound and performance as agree upon by the band.

I could go on and on. There are many soundguys out there who have no empathy with musos even when they are or have been a player themselves. Different hats making them forgetful or insensitive to the needs of all the instruments apart from the ones they’ve put a little thought into.

How many god dam gigs do I have to do where there is no set up time and I'm playing from memory as the sound engineer doesn't realise that the musicians can hear nothing on the stage especially outdoors but in some pubs and clubs also. I've literally had to watch the singers foot and play from memory and watch their hands and mouth for any clue whatsoever.

I've played gigs where the FOH mix was wonderful and people come up to me afterwards and say how much they loved the gig but because of the stage environment there has been no joy in it for me at all. Robbed by the F'in SE off all joy of playing.

I personally have my cab not too loud and at ear height at every gig I do. But sometimes I've lost the beginning of the gig due to poor stage environment and had to step back to my cab because some numb nuts SE is messing around and forgot to put the monitors right. I'm coming out from a DI to FOH and I'm getting no guitarist/singer on the other side of the drums and meanwhile I'm back at my amp and guessing the cues. At this point the enjoyment and relaxation are gone! It takes ages to get back into the zone and I've had to move out of the spotlight. I'm in a 3 piece! What is that like for the audience! What’s it like when say a pillar blocks the view of the singer and the bass player is out of the lights near his amp! Do things seem like a show now! Or have the audience got a first impression of introverted boars.

I think most live SE should be marched off premises. The incompetence is almost constant. Good live SE's are very rare let alone beginners on some course.

Rather than being offended try and have a good think about empathising with the F'ing musos up there performing. Make things right for them above FOH and your own jollies. If everything is set-up for muso enjoyment and performance then the rest can be prioritised second.

Regards,
bassdude
Octopussy
Regular
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby Guy Johnson » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:50 am

. . . I never willingly admit I'm an engineer, to any nice new musos I meet - because there are so many bad ones. Not much comfort that there are loads of bad bands!

G
User avatar
Guy Johnson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 12:00 am
Location: North Pembrokeshire
This is my few words.

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby Octopussy » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:13 am

You are right about the bad bands thing Guy. They're everywhere! :headbang:

As for live SE's I am always polite to their faces! ;) But you know it's nothing against the person even if he/she is not to competent. Face to face you always have to kiss arse if you want good things said about you at the venue so that it gets back to the booker!

But in cyberspace I can be candid. I truly hope that the message gets across from what I've said. It's amazing how a SE can rob a muso of enjoyment in their performance. I actually use to rent out my PA back when I lived in the UK. I was a live sound SE. Except I put the musicians first which leads to better performances. It's a good feeling to have the band come up to you and say they loved the stage environment and then their cronies in the audience come up AND compliment on FOH as well.

I think these live SE courses should have the motto of the course as
"FOH aint the be all and end all."

The live sound engineer hasn't gone to rehearsals and does not interact with the performers, doesn't write the songs nor make any development in the arrangements. He will never be part of the band. He can't take any credit for the performance other than not being a hindrance! His FOH mix isn't necessarily how the band would like to sound and all they really have to do is have the PA set-up properly and do a competent mix. It's not rocket science. You don't need to talk to musicians about the room characteristics to prove something to them! If you do what I've suggested then you will be sincerely thanked and given respect by the performers unless they've got no manners!

Regards,
bassdude

PS bands usually have experienced playing in more rooms than the SE has experienced! Just a thought.
Octopussy
Regular
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby John G » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:10 pm

Bassdude - you are talking [ ****** ]. As we are in cyberspace, I’ll be candid also.

Before I go on - I am a full time sound engineer and about 60-70% of my work is live. The rest recorded. I am also a trained musician with a 1st Class Bmus Hons, and played in professional bands for much of my earlier life. I feel I have an insight into both sides.

Firstly - I agree that courses are churning out loads of crap sound engineers. A whole other topic covered many times. What I will add is that they don’t stay working for very long though.

I have read over this forum carefully, and written some replies to your stuff. This isn’t personal, but I want to defend sound engineers against some of your rash comments.

Post 1:

”Someone said that I had to use a POD then I wouldn't play there! “

Good call. No musician should be asked to change their setup by an engineer. The amp is part of the integral sound of a musician’s instrument. Day one stuff.

If musicians are using a POD already – GREAT. They do make life very easy and reduce stage noise.
I heard about one gig where the entire band was on PODS and DI’s and using in ear monitoring. Stage noise was zero! But that is the musician’s choice.

“How many venues have I played where the sound engineer wants to get the band on without making the stage area give adiquate info to the band members. “

How many gigs have I engineered where I receive NO tech specs from the band or management in advance, and the band turn up late?! You get the Rider – 20 cans of stella, four hot meals, payment by cheque on the night, etc. But no stage plot, mic list – nothing. It works both ways.

At my regular venue I always make a point of:

1) Contacting the band or management in advance to check the specs and arrival time, so I can rig the pa and place mics in advance. I even set a monitor mix and EQ the wedges roughly to those positions if possible.
2) I always personally show the band to their dressing rooms, where their empties should go, etc.
3) Check they have all they need. Tea, coffee, etc. Simple things.

I am not the only engineer I know who does this of course.

“All they want is to mix FOH. Do you even know what it's like to play a gig as a three piece and not be able to hear the guitars or vocals! What is it like on stage left i.e. can you hear the other band members across the other side of a drumkit? Good live sound engineers are rare! “

I see your point. From what you say it sounds like you are doing small gigs without a separate monitor desk and engineer. When I do monitors from FOH, the mix on stage is always as important as out front. I pride myself on this. I spend 70% of sound check times working with the band without anything coming out front just to get stage noise. I can throw a FOH mix together in one song once the band is happy, but I keep in mind that when sound is coming out front things change on stage again.

Post 2:

“To put it in drum terms... imagine saying to a drummer those cymbals are a bit piercing so I want you to use these Roland V cymbals instead! Or I don't want you to tune your toms to the room but instead I'll attach some triggers to your kit and use an Alesis DM4!”

I think this a great example why a sound engineer should not tell the musician what instruments to be using.

”As for the power soak thing... they are quite expensive, so what would you do with a 2 or 3 guitar band?”

Another good point. Expense is always an issue. The other solutions mentioned here are more viable.

”Here in Melbourne there are sound engineers all over the place. SAE and other places are churning them out. And for the most part even the ones who are trained for the live side of things all want to go for the glory of FOH without taking the time to get the stage happening.”

This is a shame. What is more of a shame is that you are coming across these guys working in venues.

I worked my way up on work experience from age sixteen, crewing on stage at festivals for sixteen hour + days. I learnt more in one day of work experience than I did in three years on a degree that had an ‘engineering element to it’. I didn’t touch a decent console for two years apart from tipping it onto a stand.

”I could go on and on. There are many soundguys out there who have no empathy with musos even when they are or have been a player themselves. Different hats making them forgetful or insensitive to the needs of all the instruments apart from the ones they’ve put a little thought into.

How many god dam gigs do I have to do where there is no set up time and I'm playing from memory as the sound engineer doesn't realise that the musicians can hear nothing on the stage especially outdoors but in some pubs and clubs also. I've literally had to watch the singers foot and play from memory and watch their hands and mouth for any clue whatsoever. “


Seriously - If you are having these problems you should be touring with your own engineer. See below.

”I think most live SE should be marched off premises. The incompetence is almost constant. Good live SE's are very rare let alone beginners on some course.”

No. March the sound engineers of the premises and you will sound [ ****** ] out front as well as on stage. What a stupid comment.

”Rather than being offended try and have a good think about empathising with the F'ing musos up there performing. Make things right for them above FOH and your own jollies. If everything is set-up for muso enjoyment and performance then the rest can be prioritised second.”

How could I not be offended?! Well, I'm not offended actually. Just frustrated by your ignorance. You statements are so sweeping and throw all SE’s in together. But I am not as offended at this point yet as by your next comments.

“The live sound engineer hasn't gone to rehearsals and does not interact with the performers, doesn't write the songs nor make any development in the arrangements. He will never be part of the band. “

How inexperienced as a working musician you are beginning to sound.

Bands who tour with their own engineer tend to consider the engineer in the opposite way to that you describe. In fact, one band I tour with will often announce to the audience the FOH engineer as “our sixth member”.

All signed professional bands (with few exceptions) tour with there own engineers. Often the engineer that may have worked with them in the studio – developing arrangements, effects, mixes. They know how the band sound and their input is often a characteristic of the bands sound – and many feel as artistically important.

Professional touring bands may rehearse with their engineer. And an engineer does interact with performers – particularly why you have a monitor engineer for that specific purpose!!!

“He can't take any credit for the performance other than not being a hindrance! “

Bollocks. If the monitor engineer makes you feel comfortable and sound good on stage, you will perform better.

"His FOH mix isn't necessarily how the band would like to sound and all they really have to do is have the PA set-up properly and do a competent mix. It's not rocket science.

It is not as simple as you make it sound. Live sound (IMO) is slightly more difficult in some respects to recorded as there are major room elements to contend with, and stage noise... etc. Sometimes acheiving a decent mix can be difficult if the PA is rubbish as well. My main advice to you is take your own engineer with you.

“PS bands usually have experienced playing in more rooms than the SE has experienced! Just a thought.”

You cannot really believe that, can you? I can do seven sound gigs a week - sometimes more. How many gigs do you play a week? You have experienced playing many rooms – not listening to more rooms. You haven't had to solve issues with uneven bass response caused by standing waves, or whatever. All you have to worry about is whether it sound good to you. The engineer has the members of the band, and the audience to think about.

“If you do what I've suggested then you will be sincerely thanked and given respect by the performers….”

The suggestions you make basically describe the service that I would expect from any of my colleagues. I think that if you band get bigger and start playing better venues – your frustrations will be eased.

It seems to me from what you describe you are meeting a lot of inexperienced and incompetent engineers. What has spurred my reply is your overall reference to sound engineers in general. I don’t think you have ever toured with your own sound engineer and it sound like you are doing gigs at venues with a FOH guy also doing monitors and you don’t seem to realize that this can be a difficult job.

Perhaps your frustrations should be directed at the promoter or venue manager or directly to the engineer - and not at sound engineers in general.

Also, keep in mind the age old sound engineer’s expression:

“You can’t polish a turd!”

Cheers.

John
John G
Poster
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby James Perrett » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:35 pm

I'm afraid that I'm with Guy and Bassdude here. Unless you are working for the band and they have specifically asked you to help them choose the best gear to use, a live sound engineer should never try to persuade a band to use different gear. Unfortunately, I've seen young sound engineers straight out of college try to impose their own way of doing things too often. Chances are that these guys will have been shown one way of doing things and they assume that there is only that one way to do these things.

The best live sound engineers know that they're working for two masters, the band and the audience, and their job is to keep both happy. It helps if you have separate monitor and FOH engineers but they still need to be aware of each others' jobs. In fact, keeping the band happy is probably more important than keeping the audience happy - if the band like you then chances are they'll want to work with you again. The ability to get around problems quickly is possibly more important than knowing how to create a good mix. If you're working with a great engineer you probably won't even realise that there has been a problem.

Cheers.

James.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9203
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby John G » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:40 pm

As always, well said James. I didn't really make that clear, but of course if you are covering both FOH & Mons, you must try and keep everyone happy.

My gripe is with BassDude lumping in all sound engineers together.

Cheers.

John
John G
Poster
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby James Perrett » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:47 pm

John G wrote:
It seems to me from what you describe you are meeting a lot of inexperienced and incompetent engineers. What has spurred my reply is your overall reference to sound engineers in general. I don?t think you have ever toured with your own sound engineer and it sound like you are doing gigs at venues with a FOH guy also doing monitors and you don?t seem to realize that this can be a difficult job.


I think what spurred my last reply was that, as both a touring sound engineer and as an artist, I've been subjected to poor sound engineers and they're often people either at an educational establishment or not long out of an educational establishment so they think they know all there is to know about sound engineering. They're not able to realise their limitations and admit that they don't know a way around a problem.

In contrast, most of the more experienced engineers that I've worked with just get on with the job without fuss and will sometimes discuss their past bodges with amazing candour. They're comfortable with their abilities and have nothing to prove.

Cheers.

James.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9203
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby Dave Gate » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:22 pm

As a venue production manager who deals with a lot of sound engineers, and lighting engineers for that matter (in fact lighting is most of what I do nowadays) I can say that at most of the gigs I've worked on more time has been spent on setting up the monitor mix and making sure the band is happy than on FOH as a good engineer can get a good PA sound without a lot of trouble, particularly if they know the room and the kit.

For the record although I work for a students' union and employ students as staff I would never allow them to mix FOH or monitors on any gig - I always get an engineer (or two) from my friendly local PA company, who supplied me with our setup and hire us extras when we need them, if the band don't have their own people.

In the same way when I am doing lights for a band whose music I don't know, which often happens as a lot of bands tour without someone to do the lighting, I always talk to band and tour manager to find out what sort of looks they want, if there's any specific looks for specific pieces, and if there's anything they particularly don't want. So with one fairly well known rock band I had a very easy night as they said: no smoke, no strobes, no moving lights and try and avoid flashing them too much. Four colour wash and spots all night; which would usually be what the support band got.
User avatar
Dave Gate
Regular
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:00 am
Location: M6/M61/M60/M62/M65

Gear List: reverse only.


Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby John G » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:42 pm

James Perrett wrote:[
I think what spurred my last reply was that, as both a touring sound engineer and as an artist, I've been subjected to poor sound engineers and they're often people either at an educational establishment or not long out of an educational establishment so they think they know all there is to know about sound engineering. They're not able to realise their limitations and admit that they don't know a way around a problem.

In contrast, most of the more experienced engineers that I've worked with just get on with the job without fuss and will sometimes discuss their past bodges with amazing candour. They're comfortable with their abilities and have nothing to prove.

Hi James. Initially, I wasn't going to post anything on this thread - I rarely have time these days apart from today. I also agree with all you are saying - maybe my rant was a bit rash, but in particular the part of the post that annoyed me was:

"The live sound engineer hasn't gone to rehearsals and does not interact with the performers, doesn't write the songs nor make any development in the arrangements. He will never be part of the band. He can't take any credit for the performance other than not being a hindrance! His FOH mix isn't necessarily how the band would like to sound and all they really have to do is have the PA set-up properly and do a competent mix. It's not rocket science."

I agree that a decent engineer just gets on with it. I was a bit annoyed with the implication by BassDude that an engineers input is not important to the development of the material or sound of a band. I feel that when he starts working with his own engineer many of his problems will be solved, and perhaps he'll realize how important a touring engineer can be to making a band's life easy.

By highlighting my quote above, I assume that you are disgreeing with it. To be honest, of the entire rant you have highlighted, the bit I think was irrelevant in my post was that section.

I'm not trying to say that the SE bassdude is experiencing aren't crap. I'm just saying his post was generally aimed at everyone - I wouldn't say to him all muso's are pants because they do not turn upon time occasionally, or make mistakes or play to loud. It was the generalization I was trying to correct.

Cool.

John
John G
Poster
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:00 am

Re: getting bands to turn down their amps

Postby Octopussy » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:47 pm

Hi John G,

actually I wasn't aiming this at the guys who would be freelance and taken on by a band. I totally was aiming for the SE who volunteers and becomes part of the furniture at a venue.

A freelance SE who has become part of the show, knows what the band want in terms of mix for FOH and or mons etc is infact the opposite of what I was going on about. So if you thought that I was refereing to people who are skilled live SE's and work as part of a touring crew or because a band knows his or her work then that's a whole other ball game entirely.

I've had my chances at the big money in other situations than I'm in now. Endorsment deals all over the place etc etc. but for most of my work I've aimed myself at working with talented aquaintances and friends! There are some peices of work out there in pro band land and I have happened to have had some bad band experiences! So most of my work is clubs, outdoor festivals and pubs; especially here in Australia. But then I've had to relocate here and set up a life and support a new wife and get the right visas n' all kinds of crud. In fact I've only been gigging here just over a year!

Anyone who has reacted to my comments then to me that's good so long as it makes you think. But if I've sounded derogatory about experienced and capable SE's then it wasn't meant. But they are as rare as hen's teeth!

Regards,
bassdude
Octopussy
Regular
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am

Next