You are here

Apps and stuff

For anything relating to music-making on Windows computers, with lots of FAQs. Moderated by Martin Walker.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby Jez Corbett » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:39 pm

onesecondglance wrote:
Mahoobley wrote:I might argue in another direction. Cool applications and games on websites made in flash or Java or other such clever web-based coding that were free are now infinitely more expensive as paid-for 'apps' on small devices.

Look at something like Angry Birds. It is fun an all, but there were games like this that were totally free on web pages years ago.

not the best example - totally free on Android and only 59p on iOS (iirc it's free on Symbian too). i get your general drift though.

It's FREE?!? I got the beta and assumed that was a demo and the full version was paid. Downloading on my HTC Desire now!

But yes, bad example, but you get my drift ;)

And thanks for the heads up!
User avatar
Jez Corbett
Frequent Poster
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland
http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby onesecondglance » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:43 pm

i have wasted so many hours on it since getting it on the weekend... it's like downloadable crack :D
User avatar
onesecondglance
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1248
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby Dishpan » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:12 pm

> An ipad does browsing, email, chat and flicking through photos much better than a top of the range PC

But they don´t Johnny! They aint got a keyboard for one, and the people I know have an mp3 player open somewhere on the screen, emails open somewhere, chat open somewhere all at the same time, while using a KEYBOARD to chat.

Anyway had this conversation before, but I don´t understand how anyone can say it´s better at those things than a PC with keyboard.
Dishpan
Regular
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby Mixedup » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:56 pm

Dishpan wrote:> An ipad does browsing, email, chat and flicking through photos much better than a top of the range PC

But they don´t Johnny! They aint got a keyboard for one, and the people I know have an mp3 player open somewhere on the screen, emails open somewhere, chat open somewhere all at the same time, while using a KEYBOARD to chat.

Anyway had this conversation before, but I don´t understand how anyone can say it´s better at those things than a PC with keyboard.

...or a PC with a keyboard *and* a multi-touch screen. They do exist! I'm also tending towards the conclusion that I don't like to have to put my hand/fingers over the screen and obscure my view every time I want the machine to do something... keyboards, mice, trackpads, remotes etc. are very handy in this respect!
User avatar
Mixedup
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4443
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby jellyjim » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:34 am

Mixedup wrote:
Dishpan wrote:> An ipad does browsing, email, chat and flicking through photos much better than a top of the range PC

But they don´t Johnny! They aint got a keyboard for one, and the people I know have an mp3 player open somewhere on the screen, emails open somewhere, chat open somewhere all at the same time, while using a KEYBOARD to chat.

Anyway had this conversation before, but I don´t understand how anyone can say it´s better at those things than a PC with keyboard.

...or a PC with a keyboard *and* a multi-touch screen. They do exist! I'm also tending towards the conclusion that I don't like to have to put my hand/fingers over the screen and obscure my view every time I want the machine to do something... keyboards, mice, trackpads, remotes etc. are very handy in this respect!

Absolutely. I think touch screen has two fundamental drawbacks preventing it from ever being the sole means of input

1) Your finger gets in the way of what's on the screen
2) There's no tactile feedback, you can't feel a virtual button
User avatar
jellyjim
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 12:00 am
Location: uk
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby robinv » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:22 am

Dishpan wrote:

Anyway had this conversation before, but I don´t understand how anyone can say it´s better at those things than a PC with keyboard.

It's different. The key to the iPad (for me) is that it's not a computer - it's a media consumption device. Computers are still a huge barrier to some people, they dont do anything unless you tell it to and find the software to accomplish it. The iPad just dishes it out, allows you to consume books, music, pictures, humour and webpages without effort. Very few people (i imagine) buy a computer to do some "computing". That said i agree that most families are going to have a PC running 10 things at once rather than individual ipads for each member..... blah :)
User avatar
robinv
Frequent Poster
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:00 am
Molten Music Technology - Computers for doing music on
Making Music on the Microsoft Surface

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby robinv » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:29 am

Mahoobley wrote:

But yes, bad example, but you get my drift ;)


I think that's something good. Shareware doesnt really work any more as a model for a relaxed and groovy web experience - i think those days are gone. I love finding cool little bits of free software to accomplish a task, but i also wouldnt mind spending a couple of quid on something if it was easy and instant like the App store is. If i have to pull out my plastic or log into Paypal and fill out forms then i cant be bothered. But if it was instant and easy then i dont begrudge sending a few pennies to the creator of the useful app - that, for me, makes the creation of cool apps more inviting, it rewards good coding etc etc. What annoys me is a seemingly good bit of shareware that i register for the extra functionality for say $30 only to find out it's not as good as i thought - that puts me off.

This sort of comes back to my point about "apps" and the cheap pricing model being the future of software, both simple and complex - works for me :)
User avatar
robinv
Frequent Poster
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:00 am
Molten Music Technology - Computers for doing music on
Making Music on the Microsoft Surface

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:52 am

robinv wrote: I love finding cool little bits of free software to accomplish a task, but i also wouldnt mind spending a couple of quid on something if it was easy and instant like the App store is. If i have to pull out my plastic or log into Paypal and fill out forms then i cant be bothered.


How's that Winrar evaluation going? ;)


But if it was instant and easy then i dont begrudge sending a few pennies to the creator of the useful app - that, for me, makes the creation of cool apps more inviting, it rewards good coding etc etc. What annoys me is a seemingly good bit of shareware that i register for the extra functionality for say 0 only to find out it's not as good as i thought - that puts me off.

This sort of comes back to my point about "apps" and the cheap pricing model being the future of software, both simple and complex - works for me :)


And that sort of comes back to my point about the product stores on each platform. Apples sucess in bringing in developers to the fourth largest mobile O.S. platform has been in large down to just how well they handle the payment side of things. I think a lot of people (on evidence of that) share your outlook on it all as far as being more willing to reward work on smaller apps with pocket change, and I don't contest it for second. The real question here (for me at least) is can the guys with the 3 largest platforms ever sort out the payment processes on their own platforms to make it viable.
User avatar
Pete Kaine
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3176
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Manchester
Kit to fuel your G.A.S - https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/pro-audio

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby robinv » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:07 am

Pete Kaine wrote: The real question here (for me at least) is can the guys with the 3 largest platforms ever sort out the payment processes on their own platforms to make it viable.

Well, once Steve Jobs is emperor of the known universe we won't have to worry about it any more.

Is it all down to security?
I mean if you or I steal an iPad can you buy apps to your hearts content with someone else's payment details? Is there any barrier at all between the app and the purchase?
User avatar
robinv
Frequent Poster
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:00 am
Molten Music Technology - Computers for doing music on
Making Music on the Microsoft Surface

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:28 pm

You'd have to ask a developer about that one.

Everyone I've spoken too about it in the past from that side of things is quite complimentary about Apple's organization and payment process from the developer side of getting it out there and getting paid for it... well once they get through the rather skewed quality control'd submission process.

Android at least seems to be a bit more convoluted from what I understand, but then I'm not a developer. From a punters point of view I don't think the is any real difference in either method currently. One has to note is that the is no real controlled submission process on the other 3 platforms, and thus the amount of garbage you have to shift through to find anything of use on the Droid platform, means that a lot of people just don't bother ( I know I gave up on day 3) and that may also have a lot to do with it.

Another thing with Apple is that your target market for Apple is none technical. These are the people who see something for 1.99 and think "ooooh, I like that, I'll must buy it". I can't help but think that a lot of Android users are a little more technical and more likely to go and try and hunt down a free one instead rather than on the spot impulse buy... maybe.
User avatar
Pete Kaine
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3176
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Manchester
Kit to fuel your G.A.S - https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/pro-audio

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby robinv » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Pete Kaine wrote:

Another thing with Apple is that your target market for Apple is none technical. These are the people who see something for 1.99 and think "ooooh, I like that, I'll must buy it". I can't help but think that a lot of Android users are a little more technical and more likely to go and try and hunt down a free one instead rather than on the spot impulse buy... maybe.

Doesn't that bring us down to the old "if you want to be creative get a Mac - if you want to be a technician buy a PC" sort of rhetoric that i've been battling against my whole working life? I know many people see it as a good thing that a PC is a bit more technical, gets your hands dirty, but i would rather that we were released from all that and can get on with using the software and do the things we want to do - i guess the ipad does that for people who only want what it offers.
User avatar
robinv
Frequent Poster
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:00 am
Molten Music Technology - Computers for doing music on
Making Music on the Microsoft Surface

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby johnny h » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:53 pm

Dishpan wrote:> An ipad does browsing, email, chat and flicking through photos much better than a top of the range PC

But they don´t Johnny! They aint got a keyboard for one, and the people I know have an mp3 player open somewhere on the screen, emails open somewhere, chat open somewhere all at the same time, while using a KEYBOARD to chat.

Anyway had this conversation before, but I don´t understand how anyone can say it´s better at those things than a PC with keyboard.

You can get a keyboard for it actually.

A PC is in one place, and needs a desk. Yes you can get a laptop, which is great. But does everybody need this?

Imagine you have a desktop PC. Why do you need another full blown computer system? For hanging around the lounge and kitchen and taking on the tube, an iPad makes more sense - cheaper, lighter and looks better than a laptop. And you can use it as a large touch screen controller.
johnny h
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3861
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm

robinv wrote:
Doesn't that bring us down to the old "if you want to be creative get a Mac - if you want to be a technician buy a PC" sort of rhetoric that i've been battling against my whole working life? I know many people see it as a good thing that a PC is a bit more technical, gets your hands dirty, but i would rather that we were released from all that and can get on with using the software and do the things we want to do - i guess the ipad does that for people who only want what it offers.


I'm not saying that, that is in any way a bad thing either way. Apple goes out of it's way to make it easy which is the reason it is a sucess. All I ment to imply was that your average Apple user would see a cheap cool app and may snap it up, where your P.C. user might think "I wonder if the is an open source version that is cheaper/free".

The Apple hardware is locked down enough that it's hard to run "dodgy" software on it unless you jailbreak it and void the warranty, where the Droid/Windows platforms are open source or not as restrictive and you can run whatever you wish, how you wish. Yet another reason developers would rather write for the Apple hardware over anything else I suspect.

Which is fine. Except it leaves 70%+ of the market uncatered for, and if (just if) Steve Jobs fails to take over the world it leaves this whole new marketplace in precarious position.
User avatar
Pete Kaine
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3176
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Manchester
Kit to fuel your G.A.S - https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/pro-audio

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby johnny h » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:01 pm

Pete Kaine wrote:
robinv wrote:
Doesn't that bring us down to the old "if you want to be creative get a Mac - if you want to be a technician buy a PC" sort of rhetoric that i've been battling against my whole working life? I know many people see it as a good thing that a PC is a bit more technical, gets your hands dirty, but i would rather that we were released from all that and can get on with using the software and do the things we want to do - i guess the ipad does that for people who only want what it offers.

I'm not saying that, that is in any way a bad thing either way. Apple goes out of it's way to make it easy which is the reason it is a sucess. All I ment to imply was that your average Apple user would see a cheap cool app and may snap it up, where your P.C. user might think "I wonder if the is an open source version that is cheaper/free".

The Apple hardware is locked down enough that it's hard to run "dodgy" software on it unless you jailbreak it and void the warranty, where the Droid/Windows platforms are open source or not as restrictive and you can run whatever you wish, how you wish. Yet another reason developers would rather write for the Apple hardware over anything else I suspect.

Which is fine. Except it leaves 70%+ of the market uncatered for, and if (just if) Steve Jobs fails to take over the world it leaves this whole new marketplace in precarious position.

Which potentially could lead to a digital class divide - wealthy apple users who use and pay for premium content, and 'free' users who have to trawl through cracks and spam links to find similar content without paying. In effect they are 'paying' for it through their time and inconvenience.
johnny h
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3861
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Apps and stuff

Postby robinv » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:29 am

johnny h wrote:

Which potentially could lead to a digital class divide - wealthy apple users who use and pay for premium content, and 'free' users who have to trawl through cracks and spam links to find similar content without paying. In effect they are 'paying' for it through their time and inconvenience.

Ah, as always it all comes down to a tax on the poor - shame on the bourgeois Apple caste. Time to take to the streets comrade. :round1:
User avatar
robinv
Frequent Poster
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:00 am
Molten Music Technology - Computers for doing music on
Making Music on the Microsoft Surface

PreviousNext