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Re: JBL eon one

Postby blinddrew » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:36 pm

Hi Steve,
You shouldn't need to have the mic-switch in on the JBLs. The mics are already going through a pre-amp in the mixer and the output from the mixer will be line level. Putting the signal through a second set of mic pre-amps would explain the distortion. How does it behave with main mixer out set to unity?
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:03 pm

The Mackie 1202 VLZ3 has a mic/line switch (labeled "Main Output Level") between the main and control room outputs. If that is in the desk outputs are at mic level. it requires a pen or screwdriver to operate (to avoid accidental operation which was common on the first 1202 VLZ that I have).

Turning the master volume on the Eon One up to full is fine, then you can control everything from the mixer (this is complicated by the 'volume' on the channels but set these at, say, 12 o'clock for starters). Definitely use the mic/line switch in line level.
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby blinddrew » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:15 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:The Mackie 1202 VLZ3 has a mic/line switch (labeled "Main Output Level") between the main and control room outputs. If that is in the desk outputs are at mic level. it requires a pen or screwdriver to operate (to avoid accidental operation which was common on the first 1202 VLZ that I have).

Oops! I stand corrected. Thanks Sam :)
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:25 pm

:) It's useful if using it as a sub mixer into a snake but otherwise should be in the 'line' position. The older 1202s Iike mine) had an exposed button and it was very easy to switch it when plugging in or carrying the desk leading to head scratching on several occasions :headbang:
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby SteveGeetar » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:35 am

Thank You all for your responses.
I see the Main Output Level recessed silver button on the back of the Mackie Mixer that must be pushed with a fine point (spring loaded in or out).
I hadn't paid much attention to this button thus far. I just reviewed the Manual, but the explanation for this switch makes no sense to me (with my limited PA system experience and knowledge).
The labeling for this switch on the back is not very clear to me either. It appears to indicate if the button is pushed farthest in, it is MIC and if in the shallower position it is +4.
So does +4 mean the same thing as Line Level?
And is +4 position where I should have it set?
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby James Perrett » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:24 pm

SteveGeetar wrote:Ch Vol set at 9 o'clock.

That would set alarm bells ringing to me unless I knew that control was right at the input (in which case it would probably be labelled input gain). Chances are that there is a preamp stage before this control and you are overloading the preamp. The optimum setting is probably somewhere between 12 o'clock at 3 o'clock - depending upon the noise performance of the Eon's input stage.
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby Wonks » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:04 pm

SteveGeetar wrote:The JBL Eon One Settings were as follows:
Bass and Treble at 12 o'clock (midpoint). Reverb at 10 o'clock. Ch Vol set at 9 o'clock.
Mic input switch in. Master Volume about 1/4....
..
..
..
..OR, is the fix to push the CH 1 JBL Eon One Mic/Line switch to Line and crank the levels on the CH 1 and Master Volume?

You said it yourself. I'd set the master volume on full and the EONs input channel set to line input and the channel volume at around 3/4.

You should now be able to control the output from the main fader. Your next task is to make sure the input gains on your mixer are set correctly so that the inputs aren't distorting. Turn down the master output knob. On each input channel at a time, set the output fader knob to 0dB gain, press the pre fader solo button and adjust the input trim control on the channel until the meter LEDs are peaking in the -2 to +2dB area. Once you've done this to all your inputs (remember to only PF solo one channel at a time and remember to undo the PF solo on the last channel you used) , then you should be able to bring your master output fader up and hear a lot of nice noise from your EON speaker.

Now's the time to balance the channels, but try and keep the loudest channel at 0dB gain if you can, and lower the others below this. Hopefully you shouldn't need to have the main meters going much above the 0dB level, as you've got now the EON's volume set high. There will be some headroom on the EON's inputs, but you probably can't drive it too hard above the nominal input level (which will be when the mixer's output meters hit 0dB) before the input begins to clip.

Also, keep an eye on the limit light on the EON. If this starts flashing, then the power amps are working at almost their maximum output and the signal to them is being limited to protect them and the speakers. At this point, you'll need to back off the input signal, either by reducing the input channel volume, or by lowering the signal level from the mixer.

There are other variations on setting up your mixer levels, but this one works OK for me.

+4 indicates +4dBu. the 'professional' line level (the 'consumer line level is a bit lower level signal and is -10dBv, note the different units).
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:11 pm

Yup, as Wonky says. Just to reinforce, line level for everything except mics, it's just better that way.
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby SteveGeetar » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:45 pm

Thanks to all for your prompt and thoughtful advice, I've learned I made several mistakes that likely caused my sound quality issue. Listed below is what I think I need to do, with a few clarifying questions. If I misunderstood or still don't have it figured out, I'd appreciate you re-calibrating me.
1. I understand that if I'm going to run my Mackie Mixer L Main XLR output to the JBL CH 3, I need to get an XLR to TRS cable. But that CH has no reverb, so I want to use either CH 1 or 2.
2. For me to use the reverb on the JBL, I need to use either CH 1 or 2. I currently run my Mackie Mixer L Main XLR output to the JBL CH1 input with an XLR connector. JBL CH 1 and 2 inputs are combinations jacks.
QUESTION - Do I need to get an XLR to TRS cable to make that proper connection to be at line level?
3. The Mic/Line selector on the JBL CH 1 will be set to Line Level.
4. I'll do all EQ on the Mackie Mixer.
QUESTION - Should I set the JBL tone knobs straight up or all the way left?
5. The Main Output Level switch on the back of the Mackie Mixer will be set to +4 rather than Mic.
6. I will carefully adhere to the Level Setting and the Instant Mixing procedures in the Mackie Mixer Manual to ensure that the gain levels are set properly to ensure sufficient signal strength and to avoid clipping. Will use the Mixer Channel volumes to fine tune individual sources' volumes.
6. Once all sources are balanced on the mixer, I will leave all settings alone and adjust the overall volume level with the Main Mix master volume on the mixer.
6. The Channel and Master Volume knobs on the JBL Eon One will be set to Max. Will watch to ensure the yellow LED clipping light doesn't light. Will adjust CH 1 volume down if light comes on or if signal sounds distorted.
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby Wonks » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:19 pm

2. From the description in the EON manual, I'd say yes , but if you've already been connecting to it with an XLR to XLR and the mic/line switch made a big difference to the output from the EON, rather than cut off the signal altogether (as if it has switched to the TRS input), then your good to go with an XLR-XLR cable.

4. Have them centred to start with. Playback some music you know well and see if you think it sounds balanced. If it's too bassy to too dull, then I'd use the tone controls on the EON to get a sound you're more happy with. Straight up should be fine for most things if JBL have done their job, but in some locations you might want to just tweak thinks a bit if there's a lot of reverb making things muddy, or a lot of soft surfaces soaking up the high frequencies. You've only got basic treble and bass controls, so you can't do too much to the sound with it. but give it a go and see if it helps. If not, just leave them flat.

Then you can use the mixer's channel tone controls to treat the input signals as required.
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby ljoliver30 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:36 am

I’m probably making a simple mistake, but here is my issue:
I have a Shure SM58 connected via XLR - XLR to the JBL Eon One Pro. Mic input selected, switch turned on, the mic does not get much volume, even with the channel at max level and Master above midpoint. Almost as if a preamp is missing.
I’ve attempted the phantom power, but know that is not necessary on the dynamic SM58.
Guitar/piano/line work great with appropriate volume.
Any ideas on my mistake?
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby Wonks » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:52 pm

I don't think you've made a mistake, it just looks like the EON one isn't really set up for mic inputs, despite the mic/line switch. All that really does is select whether the signal comes from the XLR connections or the TRS ones for that channel.

The input impedance for both switch settings is 40k ohms, which implies to me that there is no true mic pre-amp built into the unit. That's a line input impedance and a mic pre-amp impedance is normally in the 1k-3k ohm region (though some older mics prefer 600 ohms).

So you'll almost certainly need to have the channel gain right up to get anything out of the mic. The high input impedance is probably attenuating the signal, and it won't be doing anything for the frequency response of the mic.

What has been suggested by Shure in a similar situation with a Peavey mixer amp is to use a low to high impedance converter. http://www.shure.com/americas/support/f ... ance-input

Shure do the A85F converter (around £25) which also gives a 24dB signal boost, and you will then plug it in to the jack part of the combi and select 'line' input. Shure also do the more expensive A95UF, which looks to be the same basic device but with an adaptor for using either male or female jack connections.

There are other similar devices out there if you want to look around.

Alternatively, buy a small two channel mixer, and plug the output from that into the EON.
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby ljoliver30 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:40 pm

That makes sense. Thank you for the help!
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby pax-eterna » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:06 pm

[quote="Wonks"]I don't think you've made a mistake, it just looks like the EON one isn't really set up for mic inputs, despite the mic/line switch. All that really does is select whether the signal comes from the XLR connections or the TRS ones for that channel.

Sorry, not true. It is a just "combo" jack, nothing flash!. You get the same result if using a mic with a trs OR xlr!
The switch does not switch between what type of conector is being used, rather it changes according to the input impedance of what is being connected.

I use it with line ins (from a keyboard). I use channel 1 and 2 for really quiet gigs where I don't use a mixer, and 3/4 for louder gigs where I do use a separate mixer.

And the main outs? I use standard mono cables from the mixer to the Eon 1s. Using an XLR makes no dfference to output levels. Or clarity for that matter. Perhaps if running at more than about 30 feet you'll get less chance of RF interference, but sound level/quality? All good. Been using a pair of these for near three years now :)
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Re: JBL eon one

Postby Wonks » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:33 pm

pax-eterna wrote:The switch does not switch between what type of conector is being used, rather it changes according to the input impedance of what is being connected.

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me whatsoever. Could you explain that a little better?

All I'm going by is JBL's own data sheet for the speaker. According to that, the input impedance of both the line and mic settings is 40k ohms. Having re-read the spec sheet section of the user manual, the switch does seem to swap between mic and line levels (no further technical details). The user manual also clearly stated that the "Mic/Line button selects between a microphone (XLR) input or a line (1/4" phone) input". Don't blame me if JBL can't describe their equipment properly.

However, with that 40k impedance in mic input mode, you'd still need to use a high impedance mic (or an adapter and a low impedance mic as I suggested).
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