You are here

NT-SF1

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:18 pm

The sadness is that these are genuinely pleasant people I'm dealing with. It's just that they have zero understanding of the recording process. I've also had it said that they've seen choirs on t'telly with no mics visible at all... not realising of course that what they saw and what they heard were in two different timeframes which had been overlaid...

Ho hum! :)
Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7235
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:00 am

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:23 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:The sadness is that these are genuinely pleasant people I'm dealing with. It's just that they have zero understanding of the recording process.

Of course, and there's no reason they should know about the recording process... but you'd think they'd listen to the advice of someone who does!

I've also had it said that they've seen choirs on t'telly with no mics visible at all... not realising of course that what they saw and what they heard were in two different timeframes which had been overlaid...

...or via slung mics carefully positioned out of shot. The slung Schoeps mics for The Proms at the RAH are almost invisible to the naked eye, let alone the cameras!

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 27058
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: NT-SF1

Postby The Elf » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:55 pm

I am definitely interested in this mic for surround recordings (I typically use a pair of ORTFs), but I'm struggling to understand its usage as a stereo mic beyond simply muting a pair of capsules?
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14281
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Wonks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:23 pm

The Elf wrote:I am definitely interested in this mic for surround recordings (I typically use a pair of ORTFs), but I'm struggling to understand its usage as a stereo mic beyond simply muting a pair of capsules?

The idea is that you can create your own pattern microphone, you don't simply mute two mics. So you can bring the included area in tighter, or widen it after recording, whereas with a stereo pair, you are stuck with what you've got. Which if you are experienced, probably isn't a problem, but there may still be times when you might want to reduce the ambient/audience/background noise.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10885
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: NT-SF1

Postby The Elf » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:25 pm

I still don't really get it. Maybe the subject of a one/two-pager in the mag, Hugh?
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14281
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Sam Inglis » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:32 pm

You could think of it as an extension of the Double Mid-Sides array, which Hugh describes here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ides-array

The two key differences with the Soundfield mic are that it is three-dimensional rather than two-dimensional, and that the figure-8 and omni components are synthesized from the output of subcardioid capsules, rather than captured natively by figure-8 and omni capsules.
Sam Inglis
Moderator
Posts: 2634
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 1:00 am

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:49 pm

Wonks wrote:whereas with a stereo pair, you are stuck with what you've got.

And that's the attraction of this thing. Think of it like compression. You could use it while you're recording but most of us leave it till we're mixing so that we're a) not stuck with a bad choice, and b) can tweak at leisure rather than in a hurry while recording. This mic seems to offer something of the same flexibility when it comes to mic placement. Of course, I don't expect you can fling the thing up any old place and expect to fix it in the mix. I'd expect it to take some experimenting to find the optimum sort of placing for it, but even given that the promise is very attractive.

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8646
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
We are normal and we want our freedom!.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Sam Inglis » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:19 pm

I've actually done quite a few experiments with trying to record a whole band around a Soundfield mic, in the spirit of the Cowboy Junkies, and it's bloody difficult, but not always for the reasons you'd expect. Singers have got so used to working with close microphones that the art of controlling dynamics in the performance has been lost; and also, what sounds like a reasonable balance to the 'naked ear' as it were sometimes sounds completely different to the mic!
Sam Inglis
Moderator
Posts: 2634
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 1:00 am

Re: NT-SF1

Postby John Willett » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:52 pm

The Elf wrote:I am definitely interested in this mic for surround recordings (I typically use a pair of ORTFs), but I'm struggling to understand its usage as a stereo mic beyond simply muting a pair of capsules?

To put it simply ...

It's basically MS with four cardioid microphones in a tetrahedral array.

The output of the four capsules is "A-format".

This is matrixed to "B-format" which is: figure-8 mid / figure-8 side / figure-8 vertical / omni

From these you can get any stereo or surround mic. array you want. :thumbup:

Plus - if you record on 4-channels you can do all this in post production and adjust at will. :thumbup:
User avatar
John Willett
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7095
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Oxfordshire UK
John
Sound-Link ProAudio
Circle Sound Services
Sound-Link are UK Distributors for: Microtech Gefell, ME-Geithain, AETA, HUM, Håkan, Meyer Turtle

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:35 pm

OK, well here's one particular use case* that I have in mind. Most Tuesdays we go down a local pub to sing shanties and chorus songs very informally with a bunch of like minded people. As time's gone on we're getting good at this we think (here's an example, not a great recording but to show what I mean). We'd love to do a recording that would catch this sort of informal ambience but combined with a better quality of sound and previously I've though of lofting an LSD2 stereo mic in crossed figure-8 arrangement to catch the overall sound and perhaps passing a cardioid mic around to whoever's leading. This mic, maybe, if set up in the middle of the pub, might be just the thing to allow me to change the notional mic setup on a track by track basis as the singing moves round the room.

CC

* I used to use UML in my job and to be honest this sort of usage of the phrase "use case" grates a bit. Just thought I'd use it so as to show I can get down-n-dirty wiv da kidz too.
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8646
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
We are normal and we want our freedom!.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby blinddrew » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:45 pm

Use cases are old man talk, nowadays it's all about user stories.

And I haven't just made that up.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10189
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:46 pm

So I'm getting down-an-dirty wiv da OAPz ...

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8646
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
We are normal and we want our freedom!.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby blinddrew » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:47 pm

:bouncy:
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10189
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: NT-SF1

Postby The Elf » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:53 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Most Tuesdays we go down a local pub to sing shanties and chorus songs very informally with a bunch of like minded people.
Mate, I would love to come hear that! As long as you are prepared to accommodate a synth nerd!...
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14281
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:39 pm

No instruments at the session, that's about the only rule, so for the night you'd be an ex-synth nerd. You'd be welcome to stay the night with us.

Cheers,

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8646
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
We are normal and we want our freedom!.

PreviousNext