You are here

Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

For all things relating to guitars, basses, amps, pedals & accessories.

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:57 pm

ef37a wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
ef37a wrote:Sort of thing SOS magazine should be offering IMHO but they don't seem keen on DIY projects?

I grew up with all those electronics mags of the 60s, 70s and 80s, too, and I learned a lot from building (and modifying) countless DIY projects... But that's not what SOS is about, and
It's not what the vast majority of the readership are interested in. The world is a different place...

Added to which, there would be costs involved in developing DIY projects and overheads in producing PCBs etc which would be impractical in the current publishing climate. And then there's the potential litigation aspect to put further dampeners on the whole idea!

H

Yes, I quite understand Hugh. Shame innit?

Dave.

It is a shame but present 'Elf & Safety' (it is nearly Christmas after all) do make it difficult.

I too grew up with those mags and the occasional DIY project and, now I'm retired, I hope to do some more. Next, I think, might be one of those Rakit Drum Synths (having recently built the Baby 8 Sequencer) but with a remote socket for the trigger pad so I can fire it from a DIY Stomp Box.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9672
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby ef37a » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:57 am

gingertimmins wrote:It would be a cool feature to occasionally write up a cool diy project, whether it be a pedal board, some sort of mini synth or even just instructables on making cables.
I’m sure many people don’t even realise that diy is an option. I never until a few years ago when I decided to rewire a guitar. Now I diy everything I can...I’ve even just built a false ceiling and plastered it- something I never in a million years would have thought I’d be doing!

So yeah, it would be nice to have cool but simple diy projects brought to our attention.

Cables, yes! I cannot see any great problem with an article showing the correct way to construct servicable cables?

I don't know about others here but I was educated (Oh! Yes! i was!) by text and diagrams. The internet abounds with videos but I always search for a written explanation. Take sorting out a computer problem. How do you WATCH a screen and hack the buttons? Much better to print out a set of instructions.

I do get the resistance* to something like a power soak. Not only could the newb constructor bugger their amp but some amps (100W 16 Ohm tap) produce potentially lethal voltages at the speaker jacks and badly done a PS could be a fire hazard.

*Boom! Boom! Oh"! BTW OP. Before you start on that box, buy a digital multimeter and get to know it!

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10402
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:51 am

ef37a wrote:Cables, yes! I cannot see any great problem with an article showing the correct way to construct servicable cables?

Sure... and it's been done:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/studio-installation-workshop

And we did one on drum triggers too:

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/making-your-own-drum-triggers

So I'm not saying there's a blanket ban on DIY projects, but there are practical and editorial limitations...

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 23671
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Wonks » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:56 am

So there's still scope for a Blue Peter-style "How to make a Behringer DI box" using only a cereal box, a washing up liquid bottle and some sticky-backed plastic?
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8664
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:29 am

And a bucket of spare white noise :D
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9672
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Wonks » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:31 am

In the true Blue Peter tradition, the method would be to fill the box with Rice Crispies and then add milk.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8664
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:48 am

:bouncy: Now you've used the B word in print, how long will it be before a company representative comes on the thread to tell us how keen they are to help and how to contact the support centre? :lol:
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 23671
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby blinddrew » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:40 pm

I dunno, even they seem to steer clear of the DI threads! ;)
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7252
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby DC-Choppah » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:58 am

To the OP, I had found an amp that I liked and needed to add an EFX loop. After some trial and error I ended up with a preamp that has its own EFX loop. I use the ART PowerPlant but there are many preamps out there with an EFX loop.

I am not sure you want to cut into this amp you have, or if the sound would be any better by doing so.

A preamp with EFX loop will give you what you want I think.
User avatar
DC-Choppah
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1115
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:00 am
Location: MD, USA

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Dr R » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:28 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote::bouncy: Now you've used the B word in print, how long will it be before a company representative comes on the thread to tell us how keen they are to help and how to contact the support centre? :lol:

Read this and thought the B word referred to Blue Peter! :lol:

An occasional Readers' DIY would definitely be interesting. Alas I have nothing I could contribute, but get exclusive rights to Folderol's diaries and you have years and years of articles...


R
User avatar
Dr R
Regular
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:00 am
Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK
My ambition: To one day have enough experience to answer technical questions on the SOS forums, as well as asking them 

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby ef37a » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:21 am

DC-Choppah wrote:To the OP, I had found an amp that I liked and needed to add an EFX loop. After some trial and error I ended up with a preamp that has its own EFX loop. I use the ART PowerPlant but there are many preamps out there with an EFX loop.

I am not sure you want to cut into this amp you have, or if the sound would be any better by doing so.

A preamp with EFX loop will give you what you want I think.

Perhaps but a pre amp is not the same as a loop in the signal path of the amplifier.

The most usual and useful position for a loop is just before the Phase Inverter stage or the grid of the output valve for single ended amplifiers. This allows all the characteristics of the existing pre amp to come through and a good deal of the overdrive quality of guitar amps comes from the pre amp despite there being so much concentration on output stage distortion.

The design history of FX loops has not been a good one. Often inserted in the wrong point. Ouput resistance too high giving "tone suck" and, levels all over the shop between brands and even models of the same brand! To match levels with the most common pedals the loop send needs to be around -10dBV and that means a 20dB ish attentuation of the signal in most valve designs. Then the return signal needs to have that 20dB chop restored to properly drive the PI. All this CAN be done without introducing excessive noise or clipping but sometimes isn't.

Then there are those that say an FX loop MUST change the (desirable) character of an amp. Hard to see that being done by an exemplary IC like the NE5532 with a piddling 20dB of gain and handling 5V rms tops but peeps have their foibles!

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10402
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Luban » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:42 pm

Hi Gingertimmins,

I am no guitar tech and this is my very first post whatsoever. Since we obviously share the same question about adding an FX Loop to a tiny amp, why not considering adding an FX looper (in a pedal format)? For instance, I have recently come across the reference of the Lehle Looper (a German brand) interested users simply plug in their signal chain. This pedal itself includes INS/OUTS specially dedicated to ensure the transmission of effects such as a traditional amp FX Loop would do. I have not tested yet, but I thought this tip might of some interest. Hope this helps!

Luban
User avatar
Luban
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:25 pm
A little bird once told me... 

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:51 pm

Hi Luban and welcome to the forum. Ginger's question relates to building an fx loop into an amp so he can use some fx (usually delay and mod) between the preamp and power stages. A looper like the one you suggest would still sit in front of the amp's preamp/guitar input.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9672
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby gingertimmins » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:44 pm

Funnily enough I’m about to post a new thread about this kind of pedal!
gingertimmins
Regular
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 am

Re: Adding fx loop to tiny amp?

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:56 pm

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9672
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users