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Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:45 am

The other useful tool is a goniometer or a vector display. It can take a little while to learn how to read the display, but it's a really useful tool for checking the stereo image and how things are panned.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby garrettendi » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:46 am

With regards to raising the volume of the right speaker, be careful you don't make the hearing worse!

Thanks for your kind comments :thumbup:
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Kwackman » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:18 am

Matthew Seed wrote: i try the trick of increasing the overall volume of the right speaker by around 10DB or what audibly feels balanced and see how i get on.

This is only a suggestion, and you might well be ahead of me on this anyway!

Rather than turning the RHS amp up by 10 dB, turn it up 5dB and turn the LHS down 5dB.
This keeps your overall level about the same and your main monitoring level control can stay where it is.
Otherwise you may get your offset worked out, using the mono voice, then discover it's all too loud and have to start again, or having to turn your monitoring level control down near it's minimum setting where it might not be at it's most accurate.

Hope it goes well and helps your situation!
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Andy McBain » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:17 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Brian M Rose wrote:Young people are beginning to exhibit the same hearing loss as the over 50's.

This is very true, sadly. The numbers of people under the age of 25 diagnosed with serious or severe deafness has risen very rapidly over the last two decades... And yes, earbuds and prolonged exposure to loud music is thought to be the reason.

H

There's been a recent increase in under 25's that collectively own enormous sound systems too, partly due to a resurgence in underground raves and free parties.

Photos of them standing happily in front of said systems with a meter that reads in excess of 120dB are worrying to say the least.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Jorge » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:21 pm

You also may want to play around with LR balance, EQ and loudness using good headphones rather than speaker monitors, to see how much you can improve your LR perception disparity in an ideal setting and whether you can then mix on headphones. Ask some friends with trained ears to help you judge how well your mixes done on headphones translate to other sound systems. Typically, SPLs used for monitoring are lower than general listening, often in the high 70s or low 80s range at your ears (dBA). This is in part to prevent music induced hearing loss, so I agree with the advice to keep your overall SPL well controlled by lowering the left rather than just raising the right.

Right/left differences of 35 dB at 4 kHz and 30 dB at 8 kHz are substantial and not usually seen with music induced hearing loss, which is generally bilateral. There are many possible causes of unilateral hearing loss, some are currently treatable medically and some are not, and early treatment is helpful for some causes. I suggest that, if you have not had a thorough examination by a physician specializing in ears and hearing (otologist or otolaryngologist, not GP or audiologist), you get this done to rule out treatable causes and evaluate you for possible benefit from a hearing aid. Hugh's point is a good one that both ears hear both speakers so addressing your LR difference at your ears rather than at the speakers would make sense.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby mick.n » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:45 pm

garrettendi wrote:
(As an aside last night I had a comment on YouTube basically telling me I might not want to pursue this... I read it, then shrugged it off. He's the only person that hasn't been encouraging).
That's one of the reasons I rarely read YouTube comments.
I'm pleased you shrugged it off. :thumbup:
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Matthew Seed » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:41 am

Thank you Thank you Thank you to you all for these amazing comments.

I am going to have a good read down them all again and then have a play and see what i feel is working for me. I appreciate it will never be perfect but as long as I can get it to a point where when i mix, everyone doesn't say "the balance is a bit off" then i suppose thats all that matters.

Also Jorge, my test was just a local, free audiologist test so maybe there is more i can do there too.

I really appreciate all your help and advice.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:40 pm

Matthew Seed wrote:Also Jorge, my test was just a local, free audiologist test so maybe there is more i can do there too.

There's no maybe about it! Get your GP to organise a referral to an ENT consultant. I don't know your medical history, obviously, but if this hearing loss is a recent development it needs to be properly investigated urgently. If its a long term thing that's been getting slowly worse there is less urgency, but it still needs proper investigation.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Matthew Seed » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:44 pm

Thanks Hugh I will.

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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Urthlupe » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:55 am

Hi Matthew.....

Just had to post to reinforce the advice above.

I have a deteriorating loss in one ear which has turned out to be the result of a lump in my brain. I now enjoy an MRI every twelve months, but also a degree of confidence that at least what is happening is closely observed. You simply must follow this up and get some medical support.

But second - in my experience the best advice to follow is exactly that offered in the thread - simply allow your brain to habituate to the loss. I’m sure that, like me, you will be amazed at your capacity to permanently compensate. There are many advantages - you will still be able to fully function in any environment rather than only in an adjusted environment, but also, you may unfortunately find that this is the begining of a gradually increasing hearing deficiency, if so then you will naturally ‘roll with it’ rather than having to constantly adjust any hardware compensation you may have implimented.

Couple of other points - again mentioned above - integrating an intuitive understanding of metering (the goniometer is a great start) will allow you to most fully engage your eyesight in your workflow, mono mixing and understanding how small head movements reveal characteristics of your sound and stereo field are also a massive help.

For me critical lisening on headphones presents the greatest difficulty and I haven’t really found a way around it. I simply use headphones for functions where the loss is irrelevant or fold down to mono. Heyho..... at least I don’t have to fork out for a pair of Audeze :-).

I had many sweaty moments when this problem began Matthew, but now it has simply become a natural part of my life and I’m certain that I’m in no way special!

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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:34 am

I am with Loopy, "let nature take its course" as far as possible.

It was over 20 years ago that I noticed I was having trouble understanding people, especially in a noisy environment. I had to see the doc about another problem and so he referred me to an audiologist. The result was some 20dB loss at 2kHz in my right ear and then it went off a cliff.
Left lug not so bad, about right for my age. The reason for this preamble? I had NOT noticed any problem in listening to my (then quite decent) hi fi rig. Even when I knew the right ear was shot at HF it did not seem to matter for stereo music.

I was given an analogue NHS aid. Ok but "stupid" They help a great deal with conversations but ONLY when there is no competing noise! Much later Lefty went bad as well and I got 2 digital aids ('king clever! Turn one one up, tother tracked it!) Better in noise but still not brilliant......MIND YOU! People are ***t a lot of the time, mumble, trail off sentences, turn away. You have to GET a deaf persons attention FIRST. Then tell them what you want to say.

Aids are very good now but still sound like bees in a tin.

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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby awgi » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:46 am

billr wrote:A friend of mine had the same problem which he got round by purchasing one hearing aid for the bad ear to bring it up to line with the good one as much as possible. He says that this made a huge difference to his mixing ability. The problem was finding a suitable hearing aid as most are designed to maximise speech intelligibility rather than give an even balance for music. Most of them split the audible frequencies into bands, process the bands individually and then attempt to recombine them which he says sounds unnatural. He found one brand called Bernafon Zerena which works differently with good results for music. It has music programs which turn off unnecessary processing and he says sound pretty natural. It can do omnidirectional to pick up sounds all round and cardioid to pick up mostly from the front. Apparently digital hearing aids are getting better quite quickly as bit rate and sample rate keep going up for a given size of processing chip, but battery life can get less for the higher rates. It was not a cheap solution however, and finding an audiologist who understood the problem was difficult, but it worked for him.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I work for Bernafon, the hearing aid manufacturer you mentioned in your post. I am searching for Bernafon users who have an interesting life to feature in a video series we're working on. It would be interesting to feature your friend's DJ/mixer passion in one of our stories. Would he be interested? The shooting would take place over 1 day and is paid £500. Please contact me at awgi@bernafon.com for more information. Thank you
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Jorge » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:19 pm

Hi Matthew, I am just following up. It would be worth getting a repeat audiogram. I don't know the conditions under which your first audiogram was done, but even slight noise in the audiology booth could produce an inaccurate result. If the repeat audiogram looks similar and this is not a technical problem with the audiogram, you really need a clinical evaluation by an ear, nose and throat physician to make sure you don't have a mechanical problem in the middle/inner ear, an acoustic neuroma, a cholesteatoma or some other type of treatable tumor or illness.
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