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searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:38 pm

OK

I have a bit of a headache here, I could really use some guidance here please.

I'm about to take on a Fostex DV2424 as an ADAT based HDD recorder. The issue I have now is finding a console with 24 channel ADAT connections.

I had been thinking about going to a Mackie HDR2496 with a D8B console setup as I came across one for sale, but I'm rather worried about whether to do this or not. I'm not sure whether to trust the console, etc as I've heard some users with issues, etc.

Other consoles I'm aware of that may work...
Sony DMX R100,
Panasonic Ramsa 7?
wouldn't really know of any others.

Ideally if I could find an early version Yamaha 02r96 (not the VCM model) and rig up ADAT that way, it's doable, but it's finding one. There was one on ebay but it's been that badly abused I'd be scared to buy it to find it's shot or failing.

Could anyone please advise me as to what I could do. if not, The hunt is still on for an all in one motorised fader system such as an akai dps24, Roland Vs2400 / 2480DVD, Korg D32XD, even a Tascam SX1 (but am told these had all sorts of issues) or yamaha Aw2400 or something like this. Any ideas?
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby FrankF » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:58 pm

Lewis,
have you thought of the Yam AW4416? Plenty in the UK for £300ish, at least on Ebay. If memory serves, I think SOS reviewed it as not quite as good as the AW2400, but not far off either.

I have a DPS24 for sale, but it's in France, sadly! :frown:

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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:24 am

OK this is the update I have to do.

Last night, I have been chatting via email with a user here who offered an AKAI DPS24 which he was selling. Stupid me here got my hopes up. Machine faulty, requires external AD converters to run channels as a few inputs have failed. I had already bid on a DPS24 from the USA with an international PSU 110/220V switching model as most are unless purchased directly from the US where it's 110v, sadly my bid at just after 1AM was outbid by $5, the seller was aware through my communications with him that I needed this, I gave decent bids, however I was taken ill last night and couldn't sit at mum's computer at 1AM to dive on it.

So, All hope is now lost. I cannot find anything which will work the way I need it to do, so my last solo album won't happen before my time comes. that's ok. life teaches you that you can't always do the things you want to do. so, I guess that's alright.

I'll ask admins to remove this thread as it's taking up valuable forum space.
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby Mike Stranks » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:15 pm

LewisAlexander2018 wrote:... I gave decent bids, however I was taken ill last night and couldn't sit at mum's computer at 1AM to dive on it....


For future reference, you don't have to sit at a computer until 1 am. You can use something like this https://biddingscheduler.com/ to enter the maximum you're prepared to pay and it will bid proactively just before the end of the auction to seek to win it for you.

As an example, a few minutes ago an auction of mine finished. It had 45 (ish) watchers and one bid that has sat there for three days. In the last minute there were five other bids... the winning bid came in two seconds before the end. That was obviously someone using bidding software who'd set up their bid and then got on with other things.

And don't despair... sometimes with these older machines or kit in general you just have to keep looking. With EBay as it now is then it's probable that it will appear eventually for sensible money.
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:19 pm

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your kind words, much appreciated.

How is it that a seller on ebay selling a DPS24 sets the pace for stupid pricing? as an example... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRISTINE-AKA ... :rk:4:pf:1 which is asking £1895, had increased his price a while back. no interest, people watching no doubt but no sale.

then there's this, but it gets worse...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AKAI-Profess ... :rk:2:pf:1

This seller is a third party, like Cash Converters but has no clue how to market the product. No evidence of it running, seller can't tell me much about it, client who wants the money won't get involved in answering basic questions. Seller has placed "or nearest offer" function, yet wants as near highest price possible. as there's no evidence of power on, etc no description of any faults or issues, etc. it's an untrusted sale.

these two sellers are using the pricing scale to inflate the value of an outdated machine with outdated parts availability. I know I'm taking a risk with an older machine but at least I can service / upgrade to a degree and get the results I want.

Fingers crossed. If only someone had one of the early 02r96 machines, that'd do, alright it needs a recorder linked and it's not portable, but for studio use, fine.

lew
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby OneWorld » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:42 pm

LewisAlexander2018 wrote:Hi Mike,

Thanks for your kind words, much appreciated.

How is it that a seller on ebay selling a DPS24 sets the pace for stupid pricing? as an example... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRISTINE-AKA ... :rk:4:pf:1 which is asking £1895, had increased his price a while back. no interest, people watching no doubt but no sale.

then there's this, but it gets worse...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AKAI-Profess ... :rk:2:pf:1

This seller is a third party, like Cash Converters but has no clue how to market the product. No evidence of it running, seller can't tell me much about it, client who wants the money won't get involved in answering basic questions. Seller has placed "or nearest offer" function, yet wants as near highest price possible. as there's no evidence of power on, etc no description of any faults or issues, etc. it's an untrusted sale.

these two sellers are using the pricing scale to inflate the value of an outdated machine with outdated parts availability. I know I'm taking a risk with an older machine but at least I can service / upgrade to a degree and get the results I want.

Fingers crossed. If only someone had one of the early 02r96 machines, that'd do, alright it needs a recorder linked and it's not portable, but for studio use, fine.

lew

You mention the 02r96, to get 24io ADAT, you could also consider the 01v96, it already has 8io ADAT and the addition of the MY16-AT card (£150-200 on eBay) would give you a further 16io ADAT

Back in the day I used to lust after the DPS24, but seeing as they are quite rare, and as such possibly difficult to find spares for, I went for the AW2400, these too have expansion slots and the Yamaha AT cards fit. However it took an eternity to transfer files to and from the DAW, which I used for finer edits - a 24 track project could only be transferred one track at a time. I sold it and got the DP24, this was much better but - no flying faders, short throw faders, no MIDI (but I did get it to sync to the DAW by way of USB, but it was hit and miss) and again the transfer of tracks to and from the DAW was patchy, sometimes it worked fine, next time I got 'file error'

I think had the HDR24 not been based on an ancient 386 PC motherboard (I was quoted £500 for a new motherboard!) I would have stayed with the HDR24

I think the thing that comes nearest to my preferences is the D32XD, but they are quite rare, and I had passed up the chance of one at £250!!!
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:39 pm

OneWorld wrote:
LewisAlexander2018 wrote:Hi Mike,

Thanks for your kind words, much appreciated.

How is it that a seller on ebay selling a DPS24 sets the pace for stupid pricing? as an example... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRISTINE-AKA ... :rk:4:pf:1 which is asking £1895, had increased his price a while back. no interest, people watching no doubt but no sale.

then there's this, but it gets worse...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AKAI-Profess ... :rk:2:pf:1


This seller is a third party, like Cash Converters but has no clue how to market the product. No evidence of it running, seller can't tell me much about it, client who wants the money won't get involved in answering basic questions. Seller has placed "or nearest offer" function, yet wants as near highest price possible. as there's no evidence of power on, etc no description of any faults or issues, etc. it's an untrusted sale.

these two sellers are using the pricing scale to inflate the value of an outdated machine with outdated parts availability. I know I'm taking a risk with an older machine but at least I can service / upgrade to a degree and get the results I want.

Fingers crossed. If only someone had one of the early 02r96 machines, that'd do, alright it needs a recorder linked and it's not portable, but for studio use, fine.

lew

You mention the 02r96, to get 24io ADAT, you could also consider the 01v96, it already has 8io ADAT and the addition of the MY16-AT card (£150-200 on eBay) would give you a further 16io ADAT

Back in the day I used to lust after the DPS24, but seeing as they are quite rare, and as such possibly difficult to find spares for, I went for the AW2400, these too have expansion slots and the Yamaha AT cards fit. However it took an eternity to transfer files to and from the DAW, which I used for finer edits - a 24 track project could only be transferred one track at a time. I sold it and got the DP24, this was much better but - no flying faders, short throw faders, no MIDI (but I did get it to sync to the DAW by way of USB, but it was hit and miss) and again the transfer of tracks to and from the DAW was patchy, sometimes it worked fine, next time I got 'file error'

I think had the HDR24 not been based on an ancient 386 PC motherboard (I was quoted £500 for a new motherboard!) I would have stayed with the HDR24

I think the thing that comes nearest to my preferences is the D32XD, but they are quite rare, and I had passed up the chance of one at £250!!!


I've been offered an aw2400 which would do the job, but knowing the amount of mics I use on certain locations this is where the DPS comes in, but considering the AW2400 is a bit on the lighter side, I may go for it. ok, drive will most likely need replacing and a good clean, but other than that, worth it. I'll let this chap know it's a yes.

The HDR2496 I used to run in two production environments, 1 being a college, the other, a client's studio. one was hooked to a 24-8 console as analogue, the other with a D8B. So had to do a bit of training privately on the HDR2496 and D8B so I could run the studios and teach students at the college.
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:05 pm

I abandoned the AW2400 offered due to a fault indicated that isn't fixable without an entire new board, so still hunting. I don't know why, but today just feels like one of those days I wish I didn't wake up to. Getting tired, worn out, this body isn't exactly behaving itself so to speak, guess the treatments aren't working anymore. ah well, there's tomorrow.
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby OneWorld » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:02 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:Couple of points...

First, I would be extremely wary of anything on Gumtree. I have heard numerous tales of dodgy dealings and downright fraud. For that reason I've never considered it.

I'm just wondering whether what you want has to be one of these vintage machines. There are still all-in-one units available new in what seems to be your price-range and I'm wondering if you've considered any of those?

Beware all that enter the Gumtree (Mugtree) Portals!

So, I saw a bargain, not too cheap such that the item was alarmingly cheap, but cheaper than one might expect. So off I went, and arrived at the nether regions of some wind-blown overspill estate, with burnt out cars, shopping trolleys cast hither and thither, pit bulls straining at the leash and cue the Psycho type soundtrack. So I waded my way through grass that was waist high, and squeezed between 2 cars, one with a smashed windscreen, there was other detrius cast about the front 'garden' I knocked on the door and heard the dulcet tones of someone bellowing "Answer the effin door will yoh" An upstairs window opened and a young lady hallooed me, I explained I had come to buy the microphone for sale. The lady said put the money through the letter box and she'll lower the microphone down on a piece of string, she explained she could not come to the door as she was breast feeding her newly born baby.

I said OK, forget it, after a bit of argy-bargy the door opened, it was a young man who explained he was selling the mic for a friend so didn't know if it worked or not "but give us the money and if it doesn't work, bring it back" and he let me into the house as I wasn't going to spend £100 on the doorstep. Immediately I got inside I could see this looked like a fence's house, there was clutter everywhere, several LCDs stacked against the wall, watches scattered about the table etc etc etc

Then a few minutes later the cops bust in, they were raiding the place!!!!! they held us all, including the nursing mother. I was soon able to account for myself, when buying something from Gumtree I always take full details and put pics of the ad on my iPad, so the cops sent me on my way.

When I got home I looked at the seller's other items and there were literally scores of them, including antique watches, jewelery, designer clothes and handbags etc it was like that Posh Porn shop on telly, except everything was scattered all over the place.

Gumtree, use extreme caution and when you see adverts like "50inch LCD TV, no stand, no box, no remote, not manual, slight damage - £100ono" that's a metaphor for it's been ripped off someone's living room wall.
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby OneWorld » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:07 pm

LewisAlexander2018 wrote: ah well, there's tomorrow.

That's what my old grandpappy used to say "At the end of the day, no matter what the conundrum, it'll either be fixed or f*cked, but the sun will still rise in the East tomorrow morning, if it didn't now that really would be a big deal"
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:24 pm

OneWorld wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:Couple of points...

First, I would be extremely wary of anything on Gumtree. I have heard numerous tales of dodgy dealings and downright fraud. For that reason I've never considered it.

I'm just wondering whether what you want has to be one of these vintage machines. There are still all-in-one units available new in what seems to be your price-range and I'm wondering if you've considered any of those?

Beware all that enter the Gumtree (Mugtree) Portals!

So, I saw a bargain, not too cheap such that the item was alarmingly cheap, but cheaper than one might expect. So off I went, and arrived at the nether regions of some wind-blown overspill estate, with burnt out cars, shopping trolleys cast hither and thither, pit bulls straining at the leash and cue the Psycho type soundtrack. So I waded my way through grass that was waist high, and squeezed between 2 cars, one with a smashed windscreen, there was other detrius cast about the front 'garden' I knocked on the door and heard the dulcet tones of someone bellowing "Answer the effin door will yoh" An upstairs window opened and a young lady hallooed me, I explained I had come to buy the microphone for sale. The lady said put the money through the letter box and she'll lower the microphone down on a piece of string, she explained she could not come to the door as she was breast feeding her newly born baby.

I said OK, forget it, after a bit of argy-bargy the door opened, it was a young man who explained he was selling the mic for a friend so didn't know if it worked or not "but give us the money and if it doesn't work, bring it back" and he let me into the house as I wasn't going to spend £100 on the doorstep. Immediately I got inside I could see this looked like a fence's house, there was clutter everywhere, several LCDs stacked against the wall, watches scattered about the table etc etc etc

Then a few minutes later the cops bust in, they were raiding the place!!!!! they held us all, including the nursing mother. I was soon able to account for myself, when buying something from Gumtree I always take full details and put pics of the ad on my iPad, so the cops sent me on my way.

When I got home I looked at the seller's other items and there were literally scores of them, including antique watches, jewelery, designer clothes and handbags etc it was like that Posh Porn shop on telly, except everything was scattered all over the place.

Gumtree, use extreme caution and when you see adverts like "50inch LCD TV, no stand, no box, no remote, not manual, slight damage - £100ono" that's a metaphor for it's been ripped off someone's living room wall.

HOLY FECK!!!! yep reminded me of something similar years back.

have watched ebay, came across 2 AKAI DPS units. both damaged. one, the seller was honest, the other however, a 3rd party business with no knowledge claims fully working when in fact there's a damaged controller on display and no evidence of it running. reported this to Ebay, yet they said the seller was fine. yeah of course, breach advertising standards and seller guidelines of honest advertising, please do. lol

it's busy here with a few things going on.

lew
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:25 pm

OneWorld wrote:
LewisAlexander2018 wrote: ah well, there's tomorrow.

That's what my old grandpappy used to say "At the end of the day, no matter what the conundrum, it'll either be fixed or f*cked, but the sun will still rise in the East tomorrow morning, if it didn't now that really would be a big deal"

Thank you, you just made me laugh! genius.

Well, let's see what NAMM come up with.... never know eh?
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby FrankF » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:14 pm

Lewis,
a couple more long shots, but with potential. :-)
There are 2 AW2400s for sale here in France: if you're still looking I can make enquiries on your behalf, ask for loads of photos etc.
They're too far away from me, otherwise I'd offer to go and test them myself. From the photos, they look to be in good nick. One has a an adat card (700€), and one doesn't (500€).

Regarding the risk factor: the French website I sent you links to (where I'm flogging one of my DPS24s) has a 3rd party secure payment system whereby your payment is held in escrow until you a) receive the item, and b) have tested it. I've used this system, and it works well.

Let me know if you're interested!
Frank

/Constructive Rant Mode On/
Why on Earth don't SOS use a secure payment system like this? Actually, while I'm at it, SOS could borrow a lot of good ideas from this website: when I sell an item, I can post as many hi-res photos as I wish, and I'm not limited to 500 piggin' characters to describe it, by 'eck. In fact, I can blather on to my heart's content, which I often do. Eh oui...
Also, when I'm searching for a specific item in the small ads, targeted ads appear telling me a) where I can buy a new version of said item, and b) exactly how much more it will cost me than the 2nd hand version I'm browsing.
Now I know SOS are not averse to targeted ads and ad revenue, 'cos they keep moaning about my ad blocker, so why aren't they using more advanced click-through software (or whatever it's called)? The French website couldn't care less, of course, as it still manages to show me a fine array of relevant, static (i.e. not annoying) ads, blocker or no blocker.
If anyone wants to look at the site (and test their French), here's a link to the small ads section for gear: if you're going on holiday to France, you might pick up a real bargain!
https://fr.audiofanzine.com/petites-annonces/
/GILET JAUNE MODE OFF/ ;-)
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:50 pm

FrankF wrote:/Constructive Rant Mode On/
Why on Earth don't SOS use a secure payment system like this?

Probably because we publish magazines, rather than provide financial services to manage a second-hand marketplace. :D

Seriously, SOS is a very small company that just doesnt have the resources to provide the kind of service you describe while still creating the world's best and most comprehemsive music technology magazine on two continents and with tablet and online versions as well. Added to which, there are other specialist companies that already exist in the market to do the managed second-hand sales thing (in the pro market if not the MI). It's hard enough dealing with all that we need to keeping the forum safe!

That said... maybe it could be an area to investigate in the future, but that's well above my pay grade! :lol:
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:19 pm

FrankF wrote:Lewis,
a couple more long shots, but with potential. :-)
There are 2 AW2400s for sale here in France: if you're still looking I can make enquiries on your behalf, ask for loads of photos etc.
They're too far away from me, otherwise I'd offer to go and test them myself. From the photos, they look to be in good nick. One has a an adat card (700€), and one doesn't (500€).

Regarding the risk factor: the French website I sent you links to (where I'm flogging one of my DPS24s) has a 3rd party secure payment system whereby your payment is held in escrow until you a) receive the item, and b) have tested it. I've used this system, and it works well.

Let me know if you're interested!
Frank

/Constructive Rant Mode On/
Why on Earth don't SOS use a secure payment system like this? Actually, while I'm at it, SOS could borrow a lot of good ideas from this website: when I sell an item, I can post as many hi-res photos as I wish, and I'm not limited to 500 piggin' characters to describe it, by 'eck. In fact, I can blather on to my heart's content, which I often do. Eh oui...
Also, when I'm searching for a specific item in the small ads, targeted ads appear telling me a) where I can buy a new version of said item, and b) exactly how much more it will cost me than the 2nd hand version I'm browsing.
Now I know SOS are not averse to targeted ads and ad revenue, 'cos they keep moaning about my ad blocker, so why aren't they using more advanced click-through software (or whatever it's called)? The French website couldn't care less, of course, as it still manages to show me a fine array of relevant, static (i.e. not annoying) ads, blocker or no blocker.
If anyone wants to look at the site (and test their French), here's a link to the small ads section for gear: if you're going on holiday to France, you might pick up a real bargain!
https://fr.audiofanzine.com/petites-annonces/
/GILET JAUNE MODE OFF/ ;-)

Hi and thanks for your reply. The Yamaha AW2400 is not viable today. If the HDD fails, more than any other hard disk recorder, this model contains the OS as well, it's not flashed, therefore if the HDD fails, the AW2400 is stone dead. I spoke to a friend who is a Yamaha Rep, he told me about the amount of issues these had from a repair side of things and if I took one on, even today, you couldn't add a more modern HDD as the board rejects any kind of SATA converter and larger drives, therefore it has to be as near same spec drive as the original, also Yamaha would need to supply the OS CD to re-install the OS. don't know if they have any left. So he's advised against. said if anything, find an 02r96 used, upgrade to VCM software and ADAT it out to a recorder or go back to PT HD.

sorry about that.

lew
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:25 pm

Just as reference. Today I removed the ad from Preloved as it was getting no support what so ever. My PAID gumtree ad was DELETED by gumtree after paying for it as it "was in the wrong place" so I want my money back from them. STAY AWAY from Gumtree. Crap support and just full of people who like to steal phone numbers, waste time. etc.

The search has ended sadly. I can't find anything viable. the Mackie D8b and HDR2496 is not viable any further as I've found out that these machines have their own deaths, also the fact that it's not portable in any way, so that's out either way. Have come across a few AKAI's but all damaged. Registered with DPS World akai forum, yet no registration confirmed or communication from the owners, etc so looks like that site is dead. Oh well. may as well just focus on just playing, rather than trying to do what I need to do. I've even been hunting for a MacPro with Protools within the £1000 budget. nothing.
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:34 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote: the world's best and most comprehensive music technology magazine on two continents

Not on the other four continents? ;)

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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby FrankF » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:41 pm

DPSWorld died at least a year ago - there's a Yahoo group for dps12/16/24, though.

DPS24 in Germany: the ad's in English, which is nice. (Jazz!)
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/dispann ... ce=1643483

That's interesting info about the AW2400's OS: what a foolish decision by Yamaha!
Or perhaps I should say "what excellently cunning built-in obsolescence".
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:59 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Not on the other four continents? ;)

It is read on them all -- all seven -- but it's only physically created on two: here in the UK, and in the USA.

:wave:

H
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Re: searching for a hard disk recording system to replace entire studio

Postby LewisAlexander2018 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:02 pm

FrankF wrote:DPSWorld died at least a year ago - there's a Yahoo group for dps12/16/24, though.

DPS24 in Germany: the ad's in English, which is nice. (Jazz!)
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/dispann ... ce=1643483

That's interesting info about the AW2400's OS: what a foolish decision by Yamaha!
Or perhaps I should say "what excellently cunning built-in obsolescence".

I cannot thank you enough. Though I have had to rely on google translate to register for the website, and then contact the seller, fingers crossed. says it has a few little issues, but I'm sure compared to the rest, these are fixable with some care. at least this has original packaging so looks like seller has had from new.

Thank you, I really appreciate it. Fingers crossed the seller is willing to ship to the UK or be flexible price wise. I don't want to be cheaky with the seller in any way.
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