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Schoolboy Error...!?

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Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby The Bunk » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:32 pm

So, I've been working on a track that has been a little tricky to mix what with one thing and another. But over the weekend I reckon I pretty much nailed it. I was listening through ok-ish budget monitors; they've done ok for me in the past and I was pretty pleased with the result. Job done, I switched back over to my hi-fi speakers in my set-up for some leisurely listening.
Got back home after work tonight and forgotten I'd switched over to the hi-fi speakers. Listened to the mix and thought "ouch, that needs a tweak...." and a few minutes later; "ouch, so does that". Etc. So I started tweaking.
And then realised what I'd done. Ouch. And, indeed, b*gger.
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby CS70 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:11 pm

Feeling for you.

A trick is to keep the project in a Dropbox folder. It keeps the last month worth version of files os in a pinch you can always bring the project back..
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby blinddrew » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:48 pm

Every opening of the project gets a new, dated filename. Learnt that the hard way. :headbang:
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Watchmaker » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:04 pm

I would kill, or maim really, to learn how pros do file management. It's a hugely under discussed topic for small and home studio peeps IMNSHO and I have yet to find a DAW that addresses good file management practices as a matter of the core product. I may be wildly off the mark though as I've only used four DAWs and stick to Studio One v3 nowdays.

Perhaps Blindrew's on the case. I'd have to look up the file size of the app wrapper for any given project though and figure out a nomenclature, assign someone to keep the policies updated, review for compliance, etc. Then there's the data convergence for the entire archive, rebuilding databases of forgotten plugins. I'm tired just thinking about it.
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Mike Stranks » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:08 pm

blinddrew wrote:Every opening of the project gets a new, dated filename. Learnt that the hard way. :headbang:

Yup! Me too! It's a good way of backtracking if you decide you've made some duff decisions along the way...
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Dan LB » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:09 pm

?? :?

I thought what The Bunk was saying was that he hasn't been able to leave well enough alone.
As Dave B said in the One Synth Challenge thread:

I'm gradually learning to accept that a mix is never 'finished' or 'right' - just 'good' and 'on time'...

I'd tend to agree with that statement!!

As for file management, yes, that can be tricky. I'd imagine the likes of desmond and Hugh have it sussed....

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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Dan LB » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:10 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:
blinddrew wrote:Every opening of the project gets a new, dated filename. Learnt that the hard way. :headbang:

Yup! Me too! It's a good way of backtracking if you decide you've made some duff decisions along the way...

+1 Every time I tweak a mix and bounce it, the project and the bounce both get the suffix 'V2' or 'V3' etc... The files are automatically time and date stamped
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Guest » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:48 am

I like to make decisions there and then, I also print effects to the track and don't keep backups of previous versions. The arts are about living dangerously.
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby garrettendi » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:02 am

I back up my work after every change in Google Drive and from now on will rename every zip file I make with the date of the latest edit to preserve history!

However one solution is to use a version control system like they use in software development. Something like git would enable you to keep a full history in an easy to understand structure when used with a separate tool like Git Extensions.

It's a learning curve, but very doable. I use Github for my Open Source software, but obviously you probably don't want to release your music under such a permissive licence, but luckily Github I believe has paid for options that enable you to keep your servers entirely private with all your own terms.

Worth looking into if you want to go that route. Alternatively if you don't mind a bit of jiggery pokery you could host your own git repository by copying the entire repository to Dropbox or Google Drive.

Although, now I think about it, just making regular zips and timestamping in the filenames is a LOT less faff! :beamup:
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Watchmaker » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:24 pm

I wonder if some of the online collaboration tools would be useful. Gobbler for instance although I've never used it except for my Softube license updates.
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Jack Ruston » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:13 pm

Re file management, I have a method that looks something like this -

Every time I open a session to work on it, it gets a new version number. Sometimes it will also have a descriptor if needs be, like 'NEW GUITARS' or 'VOCAL COMP' just so that I can see at a glance what stage I was at. There's then a date. Sometimes there are a number of versions on any given date. I don't label the mix session MIX because I don't want that to be confusing if it turns out not to be the final mix. It will either be the last version there is, OR if I'm doing instrumental versions, underscores, stems or whatever, there will be a new version number, with INST or whatever as the descriptor, and then a reference to the version that is the mix session that those stems or prints etc are derived from...

SO it will look something like this

Don'tLoseYourFiles V1.0 SETUP 01JAN19
Don'tLoseYourFiles V1.1 GUIDES 02JAN19
.
.
.
Don'tLoseYourFiles V4.1 20JAN19
Don'tLoseYourFiles V4.2 (INST AND STEMS 4.1) 21JAN19

Every time there's work done on a session, and thus a new number, there's a backup of that version to the RAID server, always always including ALL the files. Never be tempted to just backup the project files, and rely on the audio files that accompanied other versions etc. That is a road to a bad scenario.

When files are printed, either roughs or proper mixes, they're labelled....

SongName Version BitDepth SampleRate Date Tempo (sometimes)

SO Don'tLoseYourFiles V.4.1 24bit48kHz 20JAN19 120pbm

Reaper helpfully has wildcards for all these things in the Render Dialogue, so I don't have to type any of it,..I just have a string that I use, which adds all those bits of info.

Incidentally 24bit versions are always with headroom, and 16/44.1 versions always with the headroom removed...ie limited as a listening copy UNLESS otherwise specified.

A lot of mixers will send clients Mix1. Mix2. etc. I totally get that, because clients think of things that way...But I don't do that, because I always want to be able to really clearly link any version to a specific session...a specific complete backup file. If someone likes the guide pad we had in V1.2, they can send me the rough, and I will check the version number and date, and recall that version.

That's how I do things anyway, and I don't tend to lose stuff, touch wood.

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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby OneWorld » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:38 pm

Yep I'm with Blindrew too, do incremental saves. But I also run a backup to a NAS drive.

it might be too late now, but if your data files are on your c:drive, maybe System Restore might come to your rescue? Back up what you have already though!

And I might add, hardly anyone keeps their work/data on the same drive as C:

APPS/OS are almost always on C: and DATA/Samples/work etc on another

Sometimes, when I lose work, which is hardly ever seeing as I too learnt the hard way - I sort of put it down to fate - it wasn't meant to be anyway.

For backup I use some freeware called Syncback Free and it works a treat, though the incremental naming of new versions is still the safest, now it's a habit I can't break!
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:57 pm

I've got an SSD permanently connected that I use whenever I've done sufficient work to warrant doing a quick save before continuing, typically at the end of a recording session for peace of mind. I have Time Machine running as well, of course, which theoretically should do the job but as yet I've not tried using it to recover lost work.

I like the idea of version control software as I used to use at work and will investigate, I think.

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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:36 pm

I've long been staggered that windows doesn't have a configuration management option on explorer. Or at least a version control that you can set up like you do in sharepoint. Seems like a real lost opportunity to avoid lost files. :headbang:
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby The Bunk » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:53 pm

Jack Ruston wrote: Every time I open a session to work on it, it gets a new version number. Sometimes it will also have a descriptor if needs be, like 'NEW GUITARS' or 'VOCAL COMP' just so that I can see at a glance what stage I was at. There's then a date. Sometimes there are a number of versions on any given date.

Fortunately, in my case I'm a spare bedroom hobbyist, so an instance such as this is merely hugely frustrating for me but not in any way critical. But that's a useful pointer.
And the earlier point (Dave B) about a mix being "good" and "on time" - although the time factor isn't important to me - is also a good one. Having had difficulties getting the mix to where I wanted, I really ought to have left it alone for a good few days, as opposed to 24 hours, before listening to it, let alone piddling around with it, again. And of course double checking the monitoring set-up :headbang:

What actually happened in this instance by the way was my boosting a guitar EQ around ...er... something I can't remember, because it sounded muddy. That worked - which was good - but it also screwed the stereo balance as it became much more prominent. Which was bad. And that's where the tweaking started. Which was also bad.
Fortunately, though, I've resolved it but thanks for the tips :thumbup:
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:10 pm

The Bunk wrote:Fortunately, though, I've resolved it but thanks for the tips :thumbup:
:thumbup: I'm sure there's a lesson there for all of us somewhere... ;)
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Wonks » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:16 pm

I'm surprised nobody's said it yet, and I'm sure The Bunk is expecting it so...

You twat! :D
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby The Bunk » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:29 pm

Wonks wrote:I'm surprised nobody's said it yet, and I'm sure The Bunk is expecting it so...

You twat! :D

:bouncy: :bouncy: :thumbup: I can’t argue with that Wonks! It may well have been the first thing I said when I realised what was going on :headbang:
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby Watchmaker » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:54 pm

thanks Jack and Blinddrew (whom I always call Drew in my mind..) for the comprehensive discourse on naming upfront rather than after the fact. I've been a lazy twat about file naming I guess.
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Re: Schoolboy Error...!?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:30 pm

I answer to most things, but especially Drew, as it's my name :D
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