You are here

Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

For anything relating to music-making on Windows computers, with lots of FAQs. Moderated by Martin Walker.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby Watchmaker » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:38 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:Us techy-types can forget that our level of understanding of computers is not shared by the vast majority of Microsoft's customers. I can appreciate the company's dilemma... do they incorporate more 'hand-holding', 'keep the show on the road' facilities or just let the uninformed user make the system more and more inefficient?

Aye, the question "Am I my brother's keeper?" still haunts us. To me a computer is a machine that I buy, configure to my needs and expect to remain as I set it. How would you feel about a techie from Neve changing your perfect tone because they were convinced you were driving the gain structure incorrectly. Should chain saw manufacturers come and sharpen your blades to ensure device efficiency?
User avatar
Watchmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 576
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:00 am
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Take my advice, I'm not using it.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:46 pm

Fair points...

And I'm loving your signature... may have to borrow that! :lol:
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24038
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby blinddrew » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:57 pm

The more you try and make something idiot-proof, the more idiots will use it... ;)
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7593
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby The Elf » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:21 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:I guess there must be different views of the 'Downloads' area. I've never regarded it as anything more than transitory...
Me too. I can sympathise with folks losing data, but if you're not backing up...
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12447
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:33 pm

Yes, definitely that... but also actually paying attention to the displayed messages during updates. We all get blaze about it when we're doing so many apparently similar updates all the time, but it goes to show that we really should try and pay proper attention because sometimes there are mission-critical differences!

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24038
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby The Elf » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:20 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Yes, definitely that... but also actually paying attention to the displayed messages during updates.
I didn't feel cruel enough to mention that! :lol:

One of the conversations I fear most...

"Why did you just click 'Yes'?"
"I always click 'Yes' there"
"Did you read what it was asking?"
"The last bloke just told me to always click 'Yes' there"

Increasingly frequently I also see people hitting the red 'X' to close a dialogue box, instead of answering the question it was asking - and I've witnessed the horrors that can cause too.

It can be so easy to falling into the trap of thinking that we are seeing a familiar pattern and assuming it will play out the same. You've gotta read those words! :angel:
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12447
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:00 pm

The Elf wrote:It can be so easy to falling into the trap of thinking that we are seeing a familiar pattern and assuming it will play out the same. You've gotta read those words! :angel:

Sadly not everyone manages to get their words right - I stumbled across a FB post the other day from a proud mother who informed everyone that her "baby had just started going to kidney garden" :headbang:


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 14013
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby Wonks » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:05 pm

So obviously not there lung at all, but must have been very spleen she went.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8897
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby wireman » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:30 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:A couple of comments:

I guess there must be different views of the 'Downloads' area. I've never regarded it as anything more than transitory and, in my earlier ignorance, assumed it was likely to be purged when OS updates came along. It's still a bummer though for those who've been accustomed to treating it as a repository to lose it.

I have never used it (except by mistake when I didn't notice the default in a save box), as you say different people have different ideas on what these are for.
wireman
Regular
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:00 am

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby Mike Stranks » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:09 pm

Martin Walker wrote:
The Elf wrote:It can be so easy to falling into the trap of thinking that we are seeing a familiar pattern and assuming it will play out the same. You've gotta read those words! :angel:

Sadly not everyone manages to get their words right - I stumbled across a FB post the other day from a proud mother who informed everyone that her "baby had just started going to kidney garden" :headbang:


Martin

:lol: There was a story on BBC 'Points West' News many years ago that had everyone in my then office rolling in the aisles... The residents of a large council estate in Bristol were up in arms about proposed changes to parking regs. BBC sent a crew (it was a crew in those days) and local worthies came out and did their irate stuff for the camera. "It's disgusting"; said one. "Everyone round 'ere knows it's always chocolate block on these roads. Them council types should come down 'ere and see it for therselves..." :roll:
Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6717
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:00 am

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby OneWorld » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:03 pm

blinddrew wrote:The more you try and make something idiot-proof, the more idiots will use it... ;)

Yep, that's what you get when you get idiots designing things, but as they say, takes one to know one! :-)
OneWorld
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2606
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby OneWorld » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:18 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:
The Elf wrote:It can be so easy to falling into the trap of thinking that we are seeing a familiar pattern and assuming it will play out the same. You've gotta read those words! :angel:

Sadly not everyone manages to get their words right - I stumbled across a FB post the other day from a proud mother who informed everyone that her "baby had just started going to kidney garden" :headbang:


Martin

:lol: There was a story on BBC 'Points West' News many years ago that had everyone in my then office rolling in the aisles... The residents of a large council estate in Bristol were up in arms about proposed changes to parking regs. BBC sent a crew (it was a crew in those days) and local worthies came out and did their irate stuff for the camera. "It's disgusting"; said one. "Everyone round 'ere knows it's always chocolate block on these roads. Them council types should come down 'ere and see it for therselves..." :roll:

Brill :-)

I was in Shanghai for a month recently and used to visit The Peoples' Number One Food Emporium where you could get excellent cheap and cheerful workaday meals. Anyway I noticed some people were getting takeaways, and thought to myself, hmmmm, I'd quite like some spare ribs to take back to the hotel for supper, so using my infant level Mandarin and my dubious miming skills I tried to relate to Waitress Number 9, who seemed to be assigned to me each day I went there, that I would like some spare ribs to take out, spreading my fingers across my rib cage to signify ribs? then motioning animatedly towards the door, she, and the kitchen staff looked bemused and fell about laughing.

The following day I went to Number One Peoples Food Emporium with my Chinese friend, a Shanghaiese person and I asked her to ask Waitress Number 9 what was so funny yesterday and she said my attempts to order the spare ribs to take out were understood as "Please give me your ribs to throw out the door"

By the way, I can highly recommend Peoples' Number One Food Emporium - a good tasty healthy meal for £3.00 - cheaper than a big mac and twice as wholesome, and Waitress Number 9 apart from being helpful and utterly charming seems to spend most her time laughing like a drain.

Now how did I get here from Win10 and its exasperating foibles.
OneWorld
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2606
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby hexaet » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:11 am

I recommend this handy freeware update blocker:

https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-upd ... cker-v1-1/

it's especially handy with the major Win 10 updates
hexaet
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 12:00 am
 

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby ef37a » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:29 am

hexaet wrote:I recommend this handy freeware update blocker:

https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-upd ... cker-v1-1/

it's especially handy with the major Win 10 updates

If that is kosher I LOVE the fact that someone is working to beat Microsoft's attempts at World Domination!

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10508
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby wireman » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 pm

Lack of control over updates is the main reason I'm still on Windows 7.
This tool just seems to be making sure that disabling the service is permanent, but you can't do that forever because some updates need it enabled.

I have not looked into this for quite some time but there might now be enough control in the Windows Update local computer policy to at least delay updates. For business and education versions of windows these policies can be set globally.
wireman
Regular
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:00 am

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby ef37a » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:43 pm

wireman wrote:Lack of control over updates is the main reason I'm still on Windows 7.
This tool just seems to be making sure that disabling the service is permanent, but you can't do that forever because some updates need it enabled.

I have not looked into this for quite some time but there might now be enough control in the Windows Update local computer policy to at least delay updates. For business and education versions of windows these policies can be set globally.

But, if you just had to have a W10 computer for DAW purposes I assume that app would be handy because you could go online to get hardware updates but not have Ms crash in and update your setup? Yes, you are going to miss security updates but if you intend to keep the machine off line all the rest of the time no harm?

I think I shall keep this laptop on W7 and disable internet then buy a cheap W10 laptop for "office" duty. I don't really need this old i3 HP for music work but it has Samplitudes of various marks on it including the Pro X 3 suite plus Reaper (paid for) and AA1.5 and I do not want W10 playing silly buggers with any of that.

(AA 1.5 probably won't work on 10 anyway, it is a bit flakey on seven!

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10508
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby OneWorld » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:01 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:A couple of comments:

I guess there must be different views of the 'Downloads' area. I've never regarded it as anything more than transitory and, in my earlier ignorance, assumed it was likely to be purged when OS updates came along. It's still a bummer though for those who've been accustomed to treating it as a repository to lose it.

I've currently in the throes of 'rescuing' a laptop owned by a neighbour. Clever chap in his late '60s who had high-powered corporate compliance roles in his pre-retirement career. The laptop as received was a total mess. Us techy-types can forget that our level of understanding of computers is not shared by the vast majority of Microsoft's customers. I can appreciate the company's dilemma... do they incorporate more 'hand-holding', 'keep the show on the road' facilities or just let the uninformed user make the system more and more inefficient? I was given a 'broken' laptop. What I received was a laptop that had been given no infrastructure TLC and where files and folders had, in ignorance, been placed at random. The laptop is now well on it's way to fully-functioning normality...

I don;t think it needs that much handholding, in any OS I would have thought interfering with anything the user has downloaded is verboten, because they are user created files, in a sense.

For example. I am currently trying to get a refund from a supplier where I sent the item back and the transport is PayPal. Now, it's like pulling teeth trying to get my money back, a situation made more exasperating by the faffing about going through the various procedures all done online and involve filling in online forms, downloading whatever other docs. These docs go into the Downloads folder.

Now I didn't/don't want to create a new folder to store all the communications between myself and the seller/PayPal because of course I did not anticipate the labyrinthine path to trying to get my refund, made more difficult by having to go to ParcelForce to print off an autogenerated label which yes goes into my Downloads folder and then vanishes from the web page where the link to the label appears. Now Paypal wants proof that I paid for and downloaded the said label, but when my Downloads was expunged, of course the label went with it.

Luckily I had made a drive image and got the label back. Of course had I known getting my refund would be akin to uncovering the holy grail I would have created a case folder, but in the past I have downloaded a label, printed the label and sent the item off for return - job done, I then delete the files from Downloads.

I have tried to replicate the circumstances whereby the Downloads folder, so I rolled back to my pre-update image and went through the update process again - I had downloaded the Windows Insider Preview, and it seems that is more vicious when it comes to post-install tidying up. At least now I know why. And there is reference to this on the internet, but easy to be wise after the fact ;-)
OneWorld
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2606
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby James Perrett » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:31 pm

OneWorld wrote:I had downloaded the Windows Insider Preview,

That's what virtual machines are for - I'd never install an Insider Preview on a machine that I was using for normal work.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 8258
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby Richard Graham » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:00 pm

Poor interaction design. Unexpectedly putting an option for deleting user files into an update process is inviting the user to make a potentially disastrous error. Users shouldn't need to be watching out in case updates do anything other than update their computer. Just my 2p.
User avatar
Richard Graham
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1884
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Gateshead, UK
"If a nail is bent, stop hitting it."

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

Postby Nathan-VST-Plugins » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:33 pm

Even retired Bill Gates would agree with us on that, this case sounds like a very amateurish design decision, or even worse, an error. :protest:
User avatar
Nathan-VST-Plugins
Regular
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:57 am
Location: Brazil
"I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure."
Checkout my blog: VST Plugins Free Download

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users