You are here

NT-SF1

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ManFromGlass » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:44 pm

Super! I’ll get right over there.
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2020
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada
 

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Sam Inglis » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:50 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:With my normal example of the circle of shanty singers standing round the mic I'm thinking I'd use the Blumlein to give the basic stereo image of all the singers and and focus in on whoever's leading the shanty at the time using the cardioid.

Really glad to hear you've taken the plunge into the Ambisonics rabbit hole, I'm sure it will bring you a huge amount of fun and satisfaction!

Theoretically at least Blumlein isn't recommended for recording from the centre of a circle because in a Blumlein array you have a 90 degree acceptance angle at the front and back, and 90 degree wedges either side where weird phasey stuff goes on. If you want 360-degree coverage then back-to-back cardioids might be a better starting point.
Sam Inglis
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2444
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 1:00 am

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ManFromGlass » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:05 am

We recorded a CD using the original Calrec. We set up in a circle around the mic and played all tracks live. The thing was that one of our players always played louder than the rest of us. Twist of a knob and a wonderful balance was achieved.
I’m looking forward to CC’s experiences with this new mic.
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2020
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada
 

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:00 am

Thanks, Sam. I was already seeing some uncomfortable drawbacks with that. You've explained why.

MFG: that's precisely the sort of control I'm looking for :)

March 24th is when I'm doing my first serious work with it when I record the Bath City Waits. I'm hoping that placing the mic in the centre of them is going to feel a lot more natural for them than the usual close miking.

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7118
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
A small fish in a small pond.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ManFromGlass » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:29 pm

Perhaps your adventures would make a fascinating multi-part article here?
The good, the bad, the awesome. :thumbup:
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2020
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada
 

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:57 pm

Well certainly when I have more to say I'll say it here.

Cheers,

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7118
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
A small fish in a small pond.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:28 pm

Well I now have something to show for my adventures. I recorded the Bath City Jubilee Waits last Sunday and here is one of the tunes:-

https://soundcloud.com/mr-punchs-studio ... f-the-west

It's called Lantern of the West and was composed and arranged by my wife Anne Gregson. The NT-SF1 proved a major boon during the recording in that the musicians sat in a semi-circle around the mic, meaning I avoided the mess of having to close mic seven musicians while they had somewhere to put their music stands, plus of course the NT-SF1 isn't anything like as intimidating to amateur musicians. Of course you don't get something entirely for nothing and so there was a significant period of time during mixdown setting up the virtual equivalents of those seven cardioid mics. The mixer looked like this:

Image

There's a quite a lot of spill in the virtual mics (though there would be a fair bit with real mics) so I arranged them in the stereo field more-or-less as they were in reality, though the mic did give me some flexibility in placement and similarly in recording levels that I would not have had with a conventional stereo mic. That's the way I've come to look at it, as a sort of "super-stereo" mic, with the advantages of a stereo mic plus to a useful degree some of the advantages of close miking.

There is the odd minor fluff from the musicians you can hear but nothing significant and the Waits seem pretty pleased with what's coming out of it. I'm chuffed with the mic; it seems to be delivering on its promise.

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7118
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
A small fish in a small pond.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Wonks » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:34 pm

I really liked that and it sounded very well recorded. A worthwhile investment. :clap: :thumbup:
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8623
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: NT-SF1

Postby The Elf » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:23 pm

:clap:

That sounds really well!

Well done, mate! :thumbup:
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12294
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:46 pm

Very nice indeed :thumbup:
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9519
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Wonks » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:51 pm

Have you tried an ambisonic headphone mix yet?
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8623
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:20 pm

Not yet. To do binaural, which is definitely something I want to experiment with, you need another plugin and at present time they all cost money, some lots of money. Hey ho. One day.

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7118
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
A small fish in a small pond.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby blinddrew » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:35 pm

Gets the thumbs up from me. Feels like you're sat in the middle of the musicians. :)
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7014
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Sam Inglis » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:11 pm

That's lovely! I like the piece, also. Is it based on a folk melody?
Sam Inglis
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2444
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 1:00 am

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:51 pm

As I say, it was composed and arranged by my wife Anne. English traditional music is a strong influence on her music and it's likely that which you can hear. The title "Lantern of the West" is a reference to Bath Abbey and we had the pleasure of playing the tune in the Abbey during the Mayor Making ceremony last year.

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7118
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
A small fish in a small pond.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Dave B » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:25 am

(Have to go there ..... )

Needs more .... churchbell .... ;)
User avatar
Dave B
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5146
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Maidenhead
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi (I came, I saw, I conkered)

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Wonks » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:49 am

:bouncy: :thumbup: :clap:
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8623
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:20 am

ConcertinaChap wrote:There's a quite a lot of spill in the virtual mics (though there would be a fair bit with real mics)...

Yes, there would be with real mics placed at the same central position too, as you say. Laws of physics and all that...

I've come to look at it, as a sort of "super-stereo" mic, with the advantages of a stereo mic plus to a useful degree some of the advantages of close miking.

It is exactly that -- a 'super-stereo' mic, and yes, it does have the benefit of being able to shape polar patterns and angles after the event, as well as generate multiple separate outputs... And by changing the virtual polar you can have some control of perspectives and discrimination against other sound sources... but that is nothing like the same as physical close-miking.

The relative distance of the mic cannot be changed in post-production so it's never going to give a true 'close-miked' effect and thus you will never gain the separation or reduction in spill that true close miking affords.

SoundField mics are wonderful things, and offer a level of versatility and flexibility well beyond that of a conventional stereo mic array, but they are still, essentially single-point stereo mics and they cannae change the laws of physics!

Fun recording, though. Nice.
H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 23443
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: NT-SF1

Postby jimjazzdad » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:46 am

Nice recording of the Waits - chapeau! Can you please say a bit about the venue itself? I am not hearing a lot of ambience, so I imagine a pretty dry acoustic...
Thanks.
jimjazzdad
Poster
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:00 am
Halifax, NS, CANADA

Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:49 pm

jimjazzdad wrote:I am not hearing a lot of ambience, so I imagine a pretty dry acoustic...
Thanks.

My living room plus the obligatory quilt :)

I have added reverb but only a touch.

Dave B wrote:Needs more .... churchbell .... ;)

It's funny you should say that because Anne has done a lot of work incorporating church bells into instrumental music. I'm not going to give a long talk on Ellacombe Chimes here but listen to this: https://soundcloud.com/mr-punchs-studio ... himes-live

Anne has tried to get the Abbey authorities to let her perform this and other similar pieces at the Abbey. They were supportive but it didn't happen due to the intransigence of the bellringers' tower captain. :(

Hugh: I wouldn't disagree with a word you say. I've used various stereo mics in the past and know their limitations and the NT-SF1 while not fully overcoming them does go far enough to make it a really useful alternative for a number of situations. This was one of them. Anywhere you've got a group of musicians or singers and for whatever reason you don't want to go the close miking route then an ambisonic mic is an alternative worth considering. The end product, as this shows, can be quite effective.

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7118
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
A small fish in a small pond.

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users