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Madonna vocal performance

Postby aviorrok » Sun May 26, 2019 6:31 pm

Hi,
I heard about Madonna “bad” show at Eurovision and now Madonna uploaded a video with “fixed pitch”
The vocals sound great and natural , how the producer fix it? Melodyne can fix “broken pitch” like that?

Compare version:
https://youtu.be/wG4th7yEojY
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby CS70 » Sun May 26, 2019 9:08 pm

Yes, if they had the isolated vocal track it's definitely no problem getting that range of correction.
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby BJG145 » Sun May 26, 2019 9:35 pm

...right...well, confirms everything I already thought about Madonna. :?
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby aviorrok » Sun May 26, 2019 9:42 pm

CS70 wrote:Yes, if they had the isolated vocal track it's definitely no problem getting that range of correction.
I tried to fix pitch with Logic Pro flex pitch and it’s not sound natural or sound bad.
Melodyne is much better than flex pitch?
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby desmond » Sun May 26, 2019 10:09 pm

Yes, for anything other than subtle fixes, Melodyne generally gives better and more predictable results, for me.
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby CS70 » Sun May 26, 2019 11:20 pm

aviorrok wrote:
CS70 wrote:Yes, if they had the isolated vocal track it's definitely no problem getting that range of correction.
I tried to fix pitch with Logic Pro flex pitch and it’s not sound natural or sound bad.
Melodyne is much better than flex pitch?

Never used Logic pro flex pitch so I can't say, but I've fixed many a vocal track from various hopefuls using Melodyne and with a little work, especially in a dense mix, and I don't think Melodyne would have a problem, also given the vocals are then drenched in reverb.

I had not seen the show - didnt even know it was on until after the fact - so I just watched the video you posted.

The first miss it's bad, but the odd thing is that it's not a stretch note.. she just seem to get the movement to the next note somehow wrong (I wonder what she was hearing in the monitors) but keeps the (bad) pitch fairly stable, which makes it easy to lift it up a little.

The second bit, honestly I wouldn't have corrected. It's a perfectly respectable way of singing (not the current pop way of singing, in perfect pitch and with incredibly fast - false - shifts between pitches), but her pitch does relate to the harmony. She may have gone for a variation or not , or thought about it and decided not to (when you do that you come out very much that odd "not here and not there" way), or just plainly got a wrong note - but again the pitch is fairly constant for the duration so it's easy to fix.

Same for the third. "Out of the sky" is not a perfect interval as in the autotuned version, but it is musical to me - it's just not the way pop is usually sung (and the way the original is sung of course). Also here, stable pitch with ok vibrato, easy to lift preserving the voice character, even if the tuned version sounds a little too perfect to me (especially the "eyes").

By the fourth miss, it's kinda clear - she's going flat consistently , in a way that you do on purpose in other genres (say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXlULkwhgrc) . A possibility is that when your mind locks on an interval, it can be very hard to unlock it mid-performance. You just don't have the time to think and reset... if you could restart from scratch you'd nail it, but you can't. It's live. Another reason is a bad throat of course - you try to pitch and your throat muscles simply aren't up to the job.

The fifth clip is odd, she's going all over the place. Sounds like panic to me - you're there, you're singing something you've done for a lifetime and it's not working and you don't seem to manage to reset.. since you're a pro your body just keeps doing what it does but you're thinking and thinking and feeling off and just trying stuff and change course midway, and it sounds like s**t :D That's very hard to fix because there's zero reasons for the micro-changes in pitch and even an experienced editor has a hard time following and splitting notes and countering... and the fix doesn't sound that great to me, at all.

That's incidentally why it's very hard to fix children's voices - they don't pitch consistently bad but move all over the place.

So there: Melodyne can work its magic on some of the stuff but not all.
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby MOF » Mon May 27, 2019 2:25 am

Elton John gave Madonna some stick years ago for not doing live vocals so she probably thought she’d give it a try, I bet she wishes she’d stuck to plan A especially when she’s doing dance routines as well.
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon May 27, 2019 10:40 am

It would make (more of) a mockery of the while Eurovision Song contest ethos if the interval act was allowed to mime...

H
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby Watchmaker » Mon May 27, 2019 12:14 pm

BJG145 wrote:...right...well, confirms everything I already thought about Madonna. :?

I wonder what that is...

Taking up the strawman, I've long been an admirer, if not a fan. Her music bores me but I have great respect for being able to do what she's done. Few, after all become cultural icons intentionally. Considering the amount of work she's done, and number of shows she's played over her life, I'd say she's done remarkably well. Not one performer alive hasn't had a crap show, (except Ella Fitzgerald perhaps) and Madonna's a dancer anyway :-) You can tell because she wears her bra on the outside.
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby CS70 » Mon May 27, 2019 1:03 pm

Watchmaker wrote:Madonna's a dancer anyway :-) You can tell because she wears her bra on the outside.

:D

Besides, autotune began to be viable and be applied in the late 90s. Madonna had already sung (and danced, and possibly got laid) herself to success by then, many times over.

Never particularly thought the music or her voice was exceptional (with the exception of "La Isla Bonita" and the vocals in "Live to Tell") but most people who got big in the 80s could actually sing musically and make the best of whatever voice they had! She get nasal and thin when she pushes the high registry, but heck, so do I! :-D :-D
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon May 27, 2019 1:16 pm

Watchmaker wrote:Not one performer alive hasn't had a crap show, (except Ella Fitzgerald perhaps)...

No, she's had them too -- some on record!

...and Madonna's a dancer anyway :-) You can tell because she wears her bra on the outside.

Ah... I always wondered how to tell. Good to know! :lol:
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby ManFromGlass » Mon May 27, 2019 1:55 pm

As much as I need any and all help I can get, I don’t think wearing any kind of bra will help me . . . :tongue:
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon May 27, 2019 2:21 pm

Have you thought of trying a basque? :oops:
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby Rich Hanson » Mon May 27, 2019 2:26 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Have you thought of trying a basque? :oops:

I think I've wandered into the wrong forum :shock:
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby OneWorld » Mon May 27, 2019 2:40 pm

Watchmaker wrote:
BJG145 wrote:...right...well, confirms everything I already thought about Madonna. :?

Few, after all become cultural icons intentionally. .

I'm not sure about the 'cultural icon' I don't know if you watched Gogglebox but taking soundings regarding a sample of the populace both old and new - they laughed their socks off with some quite ribald comments and both old and new felt embarrassed for her, those that weren't rolling about the floor laughing, no one is mad on her anymore
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Re: Madonna vocal performance

Postby ManFromGlass » Tue May 28, 2019 11:48 am

I’d happily take her out for dinner! I suspect under her public persona lives a person who likes having a bit of fun now and then.
Madonna, if you’re reading this -text me will you, I’m free next week. . . .
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