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All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: RTFM

Postby blinddrew » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:09 am

Mike Stranks wrote:But... sobering thought... is that how we might sometimes come across to the newbie just starting the journey? :o
I suspect so!
Audio engineering seems, to me, to be a really interesting intersection between a number of skills and backgrounds.
On one hand you have the people who are coming at it from a completely musical aspect and may have little maths and no technical knowledge (either computing or engineering) - and quite possibly no interest either.
At the other end you have people who are engineers or programmers first, and music technology just happens to be the area where they've ended up.
I suspect most of us on here fit somewhere between those two extremes, but personally I'm finding it to be an amazing place where my creative side (such as it is) can meet my technical side (ditto!) and I can really get stuck in with my whole brain.

Which obviously leaves no cranial capacity left to write coherent sentences but I hope you get my drift! :)
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Re: RTFM

Postby Arpangel » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:10 am

ef37a wrote:I defy you all to find an artistic endeavour that is possible without technology?Dave.

Unaccompanied singing?

Unless you take into account that incredibly complex machine, the human being, powering those incredibly complex vocal chords!

:)
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Re: RTFM

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:11 am

:thumbup: It's car-crash entertainment

I think it should be classified as an illegal drug, once you start watching you can't stop! Ditto the vids about Paul McCartney is dead...it's like going down the rabbit hole with Alice.
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Re: RTFM

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:56 pm

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Re: RTFM

Postby Folderol » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:59 pm

Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:[...it's like going down the rabbit hole with Alice.
Careful! That's probably a criminal offense :shock:
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Re: RTFM

Postby MOF » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:20 pm

Audio engineering seems, to me, to be a really interesting intersection between a number of skills and backgrounds.
And then you get seduced by the related technologies of video and dmx lighting to get your music out in visual form and web development to publicise your music/video and gigs.
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Re: RTFM

Postby ManFromGlass » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:35 pm

That’s all part of music now!
Funny how thoughts on teaching came up. I’ve wrestling with the idea that having put in a few years at all this I have acquired skills and a bit of wisdom. I sometimes feel I have a responsibility to pass some of this on to others be they future generations or not.
Isn’t the learning of music better as a mentor situation? I can see the classroom useful for some bits, but as I was mostly mentored by others I see the value of it.

I’m not trying to be profound here but in a way aren’t we all The Manual for those who may not know the bits we know? Then what is our responsibility?
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Re: RTFM

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:04 pm


No, the one that's ten feet tall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejKUJu9xct4
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Re: RTFM

Postby CS70 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:07 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:That’s all part of music now!
Funny how thoughts on teaching came up. I’ve wrestling with the idea that having put in a few years at all this I have acquired skills and a bit of wisdom. I sometimes feel I have a responsibility to pass some of this on to others be they future generations or not.
Isn’t the learning of music better as a mentor situation? I can see the classroom useful for some bits, but as I was mostly mentored by others I see the value of it.

I’m not trying to be profound here but in a way aren’t we all The Manual for those who may not know the bits we know? Then what is our responsibility?

We probably are the Desmond! :bouncy:
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Re: RTFM

Postby ef37a » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:15 pm

blinddrew wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:But... sobering thought... is that how we might sometimes come across to the newbie just starting the journey? :o
I suspect so!
Audio engineering seems, to me, to be a really interesting intersection between a number of skills and backgrounds.
On one hand you have the people who are coming at it from a completely musical aspect and may have little maths and no technical knowledge (either computing or engineering) - and quite possibly no interest either.
At the other end you have people who are engineers or programmers first, and music technology just happens to be the area where they've ended up.
I suspect most of us on here fit somewhere between those two extremes, but personally I'm finding it to be an amazing place where my creative side (such as it is) can meet my technical side (ditto!) and I can really get stuck in with my whole brain.

Which obviously leaves no cranial capacity left to write coherent sentences but I hope you get my drift! :)

Well yes Drew but. Way back in the day the engineering and the musical "art" were very distinct. Tape machines especially needed constant care and of course were too noisy to be used in the same room as the instrumentalists. Very much "us and them" where the recording engineers told the musos when to start and when to stop. This situation did not really change until, (one can argue this) the Beatles and the accommodating George Martin?

The home recordists/musician has to wear both hats. The fact that he/she* doesn't really want to put in the time to learn the nuts and bolts is hardly OUR fault! I have said to a noob on a forum more than once (in the nicest possible way!) "You have CHOSEN a technical hobby! There really is no escaping learning a little bit of geeky stuff".

*Back to my TV&VCR demo days. I found the ladies far better at grasping the operation. Best of all were nurses (doctors back then were all above such matters and any kind of "work" was a nurses job). Worst of all were male teachers because they knew it all already and were NOT going to take advice from an oik like me!

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Re: RTFM

Postby ef37a » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Arpangel wrote:
ef37a wrote:I defy you all to find an artistic endeavour that is possible without technology?Dave.

Unaccompanied singing?

Unless you take into account that incredibly complex machine, the human being, powering those incredibly complex vocal chords!

:)

Sound crap in a field! Peeps will seek out nice sounding places then learn how to make better ones. Cathedrals are pretty heavy technology for the time.

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Re: RTFM

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:28 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:But... sobering thought... is that how we might sometimes come across to the newbie just starting the journey? :o

I ... don't think so, because it's not so long ago I was new to this game and I still remember what it was like. I was met with helpfulness and relatively little technobabble, which is why I stuck around.

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Re: RTFM

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:33 pm

ef37a wrote:Peeps will seek out nice sounding places then learn how to make better ones. Cathedrals are pretty heavy technology for the time.

Not always or even mostly! They go down the pub and sing - far more folk clubs in pubs than cathedrals. Or they go down the church hall and sing - community based choirs are flourishing all over the place right now. People love to sing and will go wherever the singing happens to be.

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Re: RTFM

Postby ef37a » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:02 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:
ef37a wrote:Peeps will seek out nice sounding places then learn how to make better ones. Cathedrals are pretty heavy technology for the time.

Not always or even mostly! They go down the pub and sing - far more folk clubs in pubs than cathedrals. Or they go down the church hall and sing - community based choirs are flourishing all over the place right now. People love to sing and will go wherever the singing happens to be.

CC

Quite. NOT fields! Even the ability to construct songs and of course write them down needed "technology".

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Re: RTFM

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:05 pm

So you're saying the pubs were designed for people to sing in? If not then you've rather lost me.

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Re: RTFM

Postby ef37a » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:36 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:So you're saying the pubs were designed for people to sing in? If not then you've rather lost me.

CC

Maybe! I am saying that singing sounds far better in a building and that is technology. One of the main uses and drivers for building development was religion and chant and then instrumental music was a big part of that.

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Re: RTFM

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:53 pm

Sorry, I've sung in a field before now and in a cemetery on a couple of occasions and unless you want to claim coffins in support of your claim of applicable technology I have to say I still think your case is tenuous.

The point at issue is you are claiming any available nearby technology installed for whatever purpose is necessary for singing when it transparently isn't. By the same argument a pacemaker may be needed to keep you alive and thus would be essential should you wish to paint a wall, but I wouldn't go looking for one in B&Q.

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Re: RTFM

Postby ef37a » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:32 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Sorry, I've sung in a field before now and in a cemetery on a couple of occasions and unless you want to claim coffins in support of your claim of applicable technology I have to say I still think your case is tenuous.

The point at issue is you are claiming any available nearby technology installed for whatever purpose is necessary for singing when it transparently isn't. By the same argument a pacemaker may be needed to keep you alive and thus would be essential should you wish to paint a wall, but I wouldn't go looking for one in B&Q.

CC
Oh! Was you it YOU in drag on that hill in SoM?!

Heh! No, tenuous? Don't think so, not being clear? Maybe. I am saying yes, of course you can sing in a field and H E could bang on any old log he liked. What I mean is, as soon as we start to make music we want to improve it and that takes technology.

In fact every activity we perform, even the act of speaking is codified by rules and rules means organization and organization is SCIENCE and science is the handmaiden of technology.

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Re: RTFM

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:46 pm

ef37a wrote:organization is SCIENCE and science is the handmaiden of technology.

Don't get me started on the relationship between science and technology or we'll be here for hours, and that's ignoring the bit about organisation being science! Dave, it's no good, this is at least a three pint job down the pub and maybe more to get this lot sorted ...

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Re: RTFM

Postby ef37a » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:59 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:
ef37a wrote:organization is SCIENCE and science is the handmaiden of technology.

Don't get me started on the relationship between science and technology or we'll be here for hours, and that's ignoring the bit about organisation being science! Dave, it's no good, this is at least a three pint job down the pub and maybe more to get this lot sorted ...

Well, bit of "freeballing" there but you sure as H can't have ANY science without organisation! And mathematics is its big sister!

Pub chat? All for it. I don't drink so I can drive!
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