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Audio problems on latest Macs?

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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby desmond » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:37 pm

Wonks wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:I read somewhere this is fixed in 14.4 beta 5.
Beta 5? So they didn't alpha test it sufficiently to get it working in the first 4 betas?

Very poor.

You know there are *other* things they are working on in major OSX versions... :headbang:

Otherwise, they'd be on stage going "Introducing Apple OSX Dark Mojave! No new features, but hey, at least audio works on *all* Macs now"...
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby redlester » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:32 pm

BobTheDog wrote:I read somewhere this is fixed in 14.4 beta 5.

That sounds promising, but some of the affected models (iMac Pro?) pre-date Mojave I think, or may have had High Sierra or earlier installed on them. Does that mean they will still be affected?
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby Mixedup » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:51 pm

BobTheDog wrote:I read somewhere this is fixed in 14.4 beta 5.

I heard that they hope it's fixed, but that that beta is out with certain AI manufacturers to test in greater depth...

Certainly, though, it's a change of position from denying it was anything to do with Apple, which is a start ;)
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby Black Sheep » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:30 pm

I've just updated to 10.14.4 this morning. I switched "Set date and time automatically" back on and no drop outs so far with the MOTU 8pre after a few hours, so fingers crossed this is fixed, even in Dark Mode :tongue:

Among the 10.14.4 release notes was "Improves the reliability of USB audio devices when used with MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and Mac mini models introduced in 2018.".
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby Dave B » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:17 pm

Whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for those affected, I'm not so upset at Apple over this one for the simple reason that USB is not designed to be a streaming protocol and, as such, I've always been wary of it for real time devices. It's great for backup drives, etc but I'm a firm believer in 'the right tool for the right job'. In this case, it's FW or TB.

Yes, it's a daft fault. But I can see how it got missed - they probably weren't looking for it. Hopefully that will change.
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby redlester » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:26 pm

Dave B wrote:Whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for those affected, I'm not so upset at Apple over this one for the simple reason that USB is not designed to be a streaming protocol and, as such, I've always been wary of it for real time devices. It's great for backup drives, etc but I'm a firm believer in 'the right tool for the right job'. In this case, it's FW or TB.

Yes, it's a daft fault. But I can see how it got missed - they probably weren't looking for it. Hopefully that will change.

I’ve got four external USB drives (one SSD, three hard drives) via a powered hub, with sample libraries, Komplete, etc. on a 2012 Mac Mini. No problem at all with that setup.

Just checked on Amazon a Samsung 2TB thunderbolt external SSD costs £863!!
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:09 am

It must be serious when Desmond - Fidei Defensor - is not waving it away.
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:54 am

redlester wrote:Just checked on Amazon a Samsung 2TB thunderbolt external SSD costs £863!!

Yes, I saw that. There seems to be a bit of a tradition of over-egging the prices of TB storage. However USB 3 gen II storage is pretty damn fast and a good deal cheaper.

Black Sheep wrote:Among the 10.14.4 release notes was "Improves the reliability of USB audio devices when used with MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and Mac mini models introduced in 2018.".

Sounds very promising.

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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby redlester » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:29 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Yes, I saw that. There seems to be a bit of a tradition of over-egging the prices of TB storage.

I can't understand it other than blatant profiteering? Surely SSD's, with no moving parts, should be cheaper to manufacture than a fiddly mechanical hard drive?

Or am I missing something? Are we perhaps still paying for the R&D that has gone into SSD & Thunderbolt?
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby leighelse » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:37 am

I bought my 2018 Mac Mini three months ago, blissfully unaware of the USB audio issue. I spent a packet on it, including 64GB RAM.

Thankfully MacOS 10.14.4 was released about the time I received my unit, and I had few issues apart from it periodically dropping a USB3 hub that connected my MIDI control surfaces and instruments. This was frustrating, but appeared to be resolved when I changed the connection from a Thunderbolt adaptor to a direct connection via one of the Mac Mini's two USB-A ports.

However last weekend I updated to MacOS 10.14.5, after which I had extensive audio drop-outs even playing a .wav file in iTunes. It's taken quite a while to diagnose the cause; it's that same USB3 hub, a powered MBeat Superspeed with seven ports.

For now I've plugged the USB hub back into a Thunderbolt port, but I'm sure I'll have to replace it, which is a shame; a decent Thunderbolt 3 hub is about EUR300 (NZD500 where I live).
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby redlester » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:02 pm

leighelse wrote:I bought my 2018 Mac Mini three months ago, blissfully unaware of the USB audio issue. I spent a packet on it, including 64GB RAM.

Thankfully MacOS 10.14.4 was released about the time I received my unit, and I had few issues apart from it periodically dropping a USB3 hub that connected my MIDI control surfaces and instruments. This was frustrating, but appeared to be resolved when I changed the connection from a Thunderbolt adaptor to a direct connection via one of the Mac Mini's two USB-A ports.

However last weekend I updated to MacOS 10.14.5, after which I had extensive audio drop-outs even playing a .wav file in iTunes. It's taken quite a while to diagnose the cause; it's that same USB3 hub, a powered MBeat Superspeed with seven ports.

For now I've plugged the USB hub back into a Thunderbolt port, but I'm sure I'll have to replace it, which is a shame; a decent Thunderbolt 3 hub is about EUR300 (NZD500 where I live).

USB hubs can be a real pain, even powered ones. I was almost at the stage of returning my Ableton Push 2 as faulty, after using it without problems for over a year when it then started not connecting, spent ages even reformatting the computer and re-installing everything, only for the problem to be cured by plugging it directly into the back of the Mac Mini.

The worry is that as USB ports reduce in quantity with various hardware releases, hubs will always be required for the foreseeable. I have four external USB drives, a synth, two MIDI keyboards and a memory card reader all connected via two hubs currently.
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby johnny h » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:49 pm

Dave B wrote:Whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for those affected, I'm not so upset at Apple over this one for the simple reason that USB is not designed to be a streaming protocol and, as such, I've always been wary of it for real time devices. It's great for backup drives, etc but I'm a firm believer in 'the right tool for the right job'. In this case, it's FW or TB.
Wow, that's a pretty incredible hot take on this issue! A computer sold for the premium that Apple charges should be easily able to handle trivial audio jobs that 2012 macbooks handled with ease.

Apple are an absolute disgrace for letting this happen. Their crappy touchbar, the poor battery, the useless butterfly keyboard .. please can we bring Steve Jobs back from the dead and sort out this mess?
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby Agharta » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:09 am

johnny h wrote:please can we bring Steve Jobs back from the dead and sort out this mess?
He's no longer compatible with current versions of macOS and iOS due to political correctness.
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby CS70 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:55 am

Dave B wrote:the simple reason that USB is not designed to be a streaming protocol

It's called "Universal Serial Bus". It has guaranteed latency in isochronous transfer mode. Streaming data is what's designed for.
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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

Postby cyrano.mac » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:13 am

redlester wrote:
ConcertinaChap wrote:I can't understand it other than blatant profiteering? Surely SSD's, with no moving parts, should be cheaper to manufacture than a fiddly mechanical hard drive?

Nope.

Just like ram, SSD cells cost is linear. More cells makes for a pricier, but bigger setup. It also yields a higher failure rate, so the manufacturer needs to allocate even more spare cells.

Spinning rust, OTOH, always contains more or less the same parts. A motor, a controller and some R/W heads and disks. Price is dictated by what the market will carry. If you need a small disk, let's say 60 GB, SSD is cheaper than magnetic media. Chances are you can't even buy a new 60 GB HD these days. Only 2nd hand or refurbs.

Another difference: there are no refurbished SSDs, AFAIK.
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