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Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby CS70 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:56 pm

Arpangel wrote:Interesting what you say here, I do feel, from hearing other people's comments, and attitudes, that there is a feeling that anything to do with creative pursuits, in audio/recording or any other artistic field is somehow not of any real "value" anymore

A good point. But nothing really has changed from that point of view. We're talking economic value here (as Gnome's post): value that can be exchanged for food and a roof to sleep under.

Creative pursuits do not have an intrinsic value of that kind. They never had. There's no economic value in having fun yourself. :-)

There is quite a lot of economic value, tough, in making others have fun.

Unlocking that value requires either that there is a demand/offer ratio is big enough (as Gnome discovered, it's very likely that the demand for studio building is vastly smaller than the offer) or skew that ratio by creating artificial scarcity (which is what branding is all about).

This latter is by far the most reasonable strategy in most cases. But it's far from easy - and it's never been. It requires complementary skills from the creative or engineering ones (and skills that not so often are present in the same person), focused activity and economic investment, and a fair bit of luck (i.e. random factors).

Nobody wants music: especially now, there's a lot of it around, way too much. But people may decide to want your music, of which there's only a limited amount, controlled by you.

All the rest is just tools to get there - they change, but the basic mechanism does not.
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby Studio Support Gnome » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:54 pm

fair points most....


I would add that the studio building gig was only part of the service range I offered.... I can evidence a small amount of the other stuff, from the several Million views on youtube for broadcast mixes and live sound etc....

The primary issue, in all avenues seemed to be one of the gulf between what people wanted, and what they thought it should cost.

I was not, ever, a charitable trust , set up to fund the difference between those two positions.

if it takes 4 months to build , you are damn well paying for 4 months of labour.... Plus materials....

I i work on location for your project, be it recording, or building, or any other application of my fairly extensive skill set, then you are paying me for it..... I'm not here to do it for fun, or entertainment,..,.. I'd rather be home with my very beautiful wife, ..... I don't care how famous you are, how rich you are, or aren't, or how good you are on the hurdygurdy ... or even how much beer or cider is available, I committed to spending the rest of my life with my wife a long time ago, and I haven't changed my mind yet....
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby Arpangel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

CS70 wrote:All the rest is just tools to get there - they change, but the basic mechanism does not.

I'm not sure, I think the basic mechanism has changed, a lot, along with the tools.
But, contrary to popular belief, you can stop progress, in the face of "you can't stop progress" maybe the envelope is the right size, and doesn't need pushing.
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!

Postby CS70 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:19 pm

Arpangel wrote:
CS70 wrote:All the rest is just tools to get there - they change, but the basic mechanism does not.

I'm not sure, I think the basic mechanism has changed, a lot, along with the tools.
But, contrary to popular belief, you can stop progress, in the face of "you can't stop progress" maybe the envelope is the right size, and doesn't need pushing.

And how so?

To make a living of something you need customers. If the something is fairly common, or can be copied easily (even badly), the mechanism is to create scarcity, the easiest way is creating a brand. Hence the Kardashians.
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby blinddrew » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:21 pm

Studio Support Gnome wrote:The primary issue, in all avenues seemed to be one of the gulf between what people wanted, and what they thought it should cost.
We're not alone in that though. Almost every project i've run has started with a hard discussion with the sponsor along the lines of "cheap, quick, good - pick two." And whilst they've all played along 90% have never really got it and somehow believed that their project was special in some way.
And then they start spouting buzzwords at you, like, 'Agile' or 'object oriented' or whatever other jargon they've picked up from the latest tech rag.

All of which is a long way round of saying, "it was ever thus." :)
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Re: !

Postby blinddrew » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:22 pm

CS70 wrote:Hence the Kardashians.
Please let this be the only time i read that name in these pages!

;)
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby CS70 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:40 pm

blinddrew wrote:
Studio Support Gnome wrote:The primary issue, in all avenues seemed to be one of the gulf between what people wanted, and what they thought it should cost.
We're not alone in that though. Almost every project i've run has started with a hard discussion with the sponsor along the lines of "cheap, quick, good - pick two." And whilst they've all played along 90% have never really got it and somehow believed that their project was special in some way.
And then they start spouting buzzwords at you, like, 'Agile' or 'object oriented' or whatever other jargon they've picked up from the latest tech rag.

All of which is a long way round of saying, "it was ever thus." :)

And yet people spends a lot of money on stuff that is not objectively better than others (or even, noticeably worse). Even for stuff that's truly better, often it's not as better as the economic difference is, by far - in objective terms.

In business, certain consultancies are expected to give certain prices, and some other can't - for what is essentially the same job and result. In music, people are willing to spend what, 100 pounds for, say, a Bon Jovi gig and .. ahem.. let's say a significantly smaller amount for one of mine. :D And (sorry Drew! :lol: ) the Kardies make a ton of money.

First, they all have a significant market. Secondly, the key is scarcity. Whatever you do, at least 80 per cent of your effort should be on creating scarcity (if it's not there already).

In bad cases, it's an reproachable illusion - the Voss water is just water, and still retails at 1000% the price of the already insanely priced regular bottled water. The Kardashians are.. people - there's 7 billions of them and counting. In good cases, you've got something on your hands that's truly rare and exceptional (a Ferrari, say, or inspired music) but then the work is to create the awareness and perception of it, which even then it's not a given at all.

Both cases require great investment. Both seem to betray the reason for which people do what they do in the first place - which is out of interest, creativity, enjoyment and other non-economical reasons. Enzo Ferrari cared mostly about driving and got bankrupt a few times and had his company bought by Fiat - where it became the enormous success it is.. after his death. Leo Fender was lucky and had Fullerton - two sides of a coin.
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby MOF » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:46 pm

CS70 wrote:
Hence the Kardashians.
Please let this be the only time i read that name in these pages!

;)
I’ve heard of them but don’t know any of their work. Are they any good?
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby CS70 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:48 pm

MOF wrote:
CS70 wrote:
Hence the Kardashians.
Please let this be the only time i read that name in these pages!

;)
I’ve heard of them but don’t know any of their work. Are they any good?

I noticed them when I read that one of the sisters is apparently the youngest billionaire of the planet. :lol:
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby MOF » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:18 am

I noticed them when I read that one of the sisters is apparently the youngest billionaire of the planet. :lol:
Is she the principal songwriter then?
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby Arpangel » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:44 am

CS70 wrote:
MOF wrote:I noticed them when I read that one of the sisters is apparently the youngest billionaire of the planet. :lol:

I don't think I'm going to make a billion hiring out anything.
If I had money like that I'd enjoy using some of it to help struggling artists/musicians who I thought had real talent, but right now, I think I would have major trouble finding any takers.
I think I'd get more pleasure out of helping my mate who's struggling to bring up his family.
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby CS70 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:02 am

MOF wrote:
I noticed them when I read that one of the sisters is apparently the youngest billionaire of the planet. :lol:
Is she the principal songwriter then?

No idea. I think they promote lipstick or something, but I dont really know who they are and how many and what they do. Whatever they do tough, it's obviously working.
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby CS70 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:02 am

Arpangel wrote:
CS70 wrote:
MOF wrote:I noticed them when I read that one of the sisters is apparently the youngest billionaire of the planet. :lol:

I don't think I'm going to make a billion hiring out anything.
If I had money like that I'd enjoy using some of it to help struggling artists/musicians who I thought had real talent, but right now, I think I would have major trouble finding any takers.
I think I'd get more pleasure out of helping my mate who's struggling to bring up his family.

Kudos!
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:44 am

CS70 wrote:
Arpangel wrote:
CS70 wrote:
MOF wrote:I noticed them when I read that one of the sisters is apparently the youngest billionaire of the planet. :lol:

I don't think I'm going to make a billion hiring out anything.
If I had money like that I'd enjoy using some of it to help struggling artists/musicians who I thought had real talent, but right now, I think I would have major trouble finding any takers.
I think I'd get more pleasure out of helping my mate who's struggling to bring up his family.

Kudos!

I know it's easy to say things like this, but money is like atomic energy, it can be used for good and very, very bad. I don't mind helping someone who is striving for something, an end goal, but some people seem to make the same mistakes over and over again, like they do it deliberately and they know there is alaways some mug who will dig them out.
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Re: Equipment hire, business idea advice needed.

Postby blinddrew » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:31 am

Are we talking about venture capitalists in general or Jeremy Hunt in particular?
:D
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