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Quad HIFI Ideas?

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Arpangel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:36 am

Sam Spoons wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Not just the quality of performance, the quality of the PA has a huge impact on amplified music.

We are, though, broadly on the same page. :thumbup:

You're right there, I went to a couple of performances by one of my favourite guitarists, Bill Frisell, the sound wasn't just bad, it was inaudible. I felt so strongly about this I wrote to his management who really didn't seem to care. One was at Ronnie Scott's, the other at the Cadogan Hall, there were also others in the audience that were unhappy about it too, it wasnt just me. I complained to Ronnies also, but customer services there leave a lot to be desired.
I think the quallity of PA systems is the best ever, it has to be pilot error, and it is surprising how amateur and inexperienced some engineers seem to be on what are quite important and prestigious tours. It's like they aern't hearing or taking into account any audience feedback, they are right, end of story, after all, what does the audience know? Well, it's us who have to listen, and we've paid not insignificant amounts for our tickets!
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:44 am

I went to a musical stage show last night. The sound in the first half was excellent. However, I noticed a different operator came to the console after the interval and, in comparison the second half mixing was a clumsy and heavy-handed. Lacking finesse and with a decidedly poor balance at times (vocals being drowned by the band regularly! I suspect most of the audience probably wouldn't have noticed -- or cared -- but it was very obvious and disappointingly distracting to me.

So, the same PA system sounded both sublime and terrible... But in another situation would the audience blame the operator or the hardware?

H
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Arpangel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:14 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I went to a musical stage show last night. The sound in the first half was excellent. However, I noticed a different operator came to the console after the interval and, in comparison the second half mixing was a clumsy and heavy-handed. Lacking finesse and with a decidedly poor balance at times (vocals being drowned by the band regularly! I suspect most of the audience probably wouldn't have noticed -- or cared -- but it was very obvious and disappointingly distracting to me.

So, the same PA system sounded both sublime and terrible... But in another situation would the audience blame the operator or the hardware?

H

I think your suspicions might be right, they may not care. Equipment or operator? I'm not sure if they would know enough to make a judgement but these days if it's a half decent artist equipment isn't going to be in question surely? unless it's massively under-specced. My attitude would be I'm an engineer and I'm here to get the bands music and message over the best I can, I am just as important as the artist, if I mess up it would spoil the evening for everyone. Regardless of audience expectations we should always do the best we can IMO.
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:09 pm

One of my favourite bands played Matt & Phreds in Manchester a couple of years ago, I left after two tunes as the sound was so bad, the young 'sound engineer' seemed more interested in his phone than the band or his X32. :headbang:
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby James Perrett » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:27 pm

Sam Spoons wrote: the young 'sound engineer' seemed more interested in his phone than the band or his X32. :headbang:

Plenty of sound engineers seem more interested in their iPads these days ;) :bouncy:
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:29 pm

:D :D :D
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Arpangel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:01 pm

A rather bad attempt to re-rail this thread back on topic. a lot of bands would be better off with a pair of Wharfedales and a 405 on stage than some of the things I've heard lately!

:)
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:45 pm

I think sometimes the issue is that the engineers don't know how to get the best out of the room. I went to see British Sea Power a few years ago and left about halfway through because it was such a mess. All bass and top end and the midrange was just complete mush - for a band with two guitars, keyboards and 2 or 3 vocalists you can't let that happen.
The owners changed venue a couple of years later and I saw Dry the River (who have a similar line up) and the sound was brilliant - it was like hearing the album live.
Same PA (I played both places before and after), different rooms, one was well set up, the other was...n't.
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Arpangel » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:24 am

blinddrew wrote:I think sometimes the issue is that the engineers don't know how to get the best out of the room. I went to see British Sea Power a few years ago and left about halfway through because it was such a mess. All bass and top end and the midrange was just complete mush - for a band with two guitars, keyboards and 2 or 3 vocalists you can't let that happen.
The owners changed venue a couple of years later and I saw Dry the River (who have a similar line up) and the sound was brilliant - it was like hearing the album live.
Same PA (I played both places before and after), different rooms, one was well set up, the other was...n't.

There are some silly practices out there that people just "assume" are what you do.
There's a local pub here, very small, about the size of a large domestic living room 30ftX 20ft
Bands always insist on micing up the drums.....WHAT!!!!!! that's crazy. IMO you should balance the rest of the band to the drums, vocals might need amplification, but that's it.
The result is that it's all too loud, distorted, and unbearable, they seem to be under the illusion that they're in Wembley Stadium. You can't even begin to talk to these people, this is how we do it and that's that.
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:58 am

There are indeed silly practices out there but I always put up a kick and overhead, and mic the guitar amps*. That doesn't mean the guitar is any louder than it would be left to it's own devices but it usually makes it sound a little fuller (especially if it's a 1x12" combo). Obviously this is dependent on the band being prepared to play down to the room but if you are being paid to provide PA you probably need to be seen to be doing the job, even if the guitar fader is right down ;) .

* Well in a 30'x20' room even I might just stick to vocals through the PA.
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:42 am

Even in a small room I mic up our drummer's kick but i just feed it to his monitor, it makes him play quieter! :)
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:52 am

blinddrew wrote:Even in a small room I mic up our drummer's kick but i just feed it to his monitor, it makes him play quieter! :)

I did that to an MC in a caravan at a country show once!

He would keep blasting the mic and so I setup a small speaker tapped off the 100V line and put it behind his right ear.

Car battery gear of those days did not have a lot of headroom.

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:18 pm

blinddrew wrote:Even in a small room I mic up our drummer's kick but i just feed it to his monitor, it makes him play quieter! :)

^This :clap: :clap: :clap:
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