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What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:20 am

DC-Choppah wrote:I am a bit confused on the phantom power concern. And it has to be safe to switch as we will never remember to turn off the phantom power.

The only issue with phantom is if you try and patch mics using a TRS-style patch-bay. In that situation, as you insert (or remove) the plug, you can very easily accidentally short one side of the balanced line to ground, and if phantom power is turned on that can produce voltage spikes that have been known to damage preamps and mics.

There's no threat to life or anything like that -- the voltage is way too low -- but there is a real risk to equipment.

Hence all the advice not to use TRS (or PO316/B-type, or TT/Bantam) patch-bay for plugging mic circuits!

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:34 am

DC-Choppah wrote:OK, building this up on the Redco site to make a 16, pick 8 channel jack field using XLR plugs is getting to be pretty darn huge and eating up too much rack space and is like $450.

That's bonkers! It requires a 2U panel -- like the 24-hole model Dave found, and 24 XLRs, so the total for that would be around £125 tops. If you can't do the soldering yourself you'd have to add that, obviously... but it would be a really good project to learn how to solder with!

On top of that you'd need the studio end boxes, of course... If you don't already have something, I'd buy two 8-way stage boxes, populate them yourself with female XLRs, and a length of 8-way multicore.

You should be able to do the whole thing for under £250 if you can do the wiring yourself.

Regarding the D-Sub switch box... No! Not suitable! Sorry. Not wired correctly and inappropriate switch.

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Stratman57 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:49 am

Why not just buy a Behringer XR 18? 16 XLR inputs, 18 channel Audio interface. You wouldn't need to do any switching.

Regards, Simon.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:53 pm

Better part of £400 though. Might be worth it if the rest of the functionality is useful to you but otherwise...?
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:05 pm

Stratman57 wrote:Why not just buy a Behringer XR 18? 16 XLR inputs, 18 channel Audio interface. You wouldn't need to do any switching.

Regards, Simon.

A want all mics to switch into the mixing board to provide a surface to control the mix while tracking in groups of 8.

Yes if I had more space for the mixing surface that would work but I don’t.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby MOF » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:14 pm

If your budget and rack space is limited then you’re going to have to forget about some bespoke system and buy two 8 way female xlr boxes to separate male xlr connectors and replug them each time you need a different recording area.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:31 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:A want all mics to switch into the mixing board to provide a surface to control the mix while tracking in groups of 8.
I'm not familiar with the mixer but I think most digital mixers of this ilk would let you connect 16 mics and then set up two different 'scenes' that would allow you to specify scene 1 outputing inputs 1-8 to aux 1-6 + main L&R, then scene 2 would do the same with inputs 9-16. To switch your set up all you'd need to do would be toggle between the scenes.

He says, in complete ignorance! :D
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:42 pm

Dave I get this now. I do have rack space available for that. Two rows of XLR mic inputs and a dpdt switch on each one. Outputs out the back to the mixer.

Need to get my son to solder this up for me!
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby MOF » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:49 pm

Alternatively you could use my original suggestion and get two eight way xlr boxes with the opposite sex D-sub connectors to one plugged into the mixer and just swap them over each time.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:08 pm

blinddrew wrote:
DC-Choppah wrote:A want all mics to switch into the mixing board to provide a surface to control the mix while tracking in groups of 8.
I'm not familiar with the mixer but I think most digital mixers of this ilk would let you connect 16 mics and then set up two different 'scenes' that would allow you to specify scene 1 outputing inputs 1-8 to aux 1-6 + main L&R, then scene 2 would do the same with inputs 9-16. To switch your set up all you'd need to do would be toggle between the scenes.

He says, in complete ignorance! :D

That kind of mixer with 16 mic inputs + all the other channels I need is way to wide to fit in my 19" cabinet top.

I have a 16 channel mixer that fits. 8 of these channels are for mics in the recording area.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... usb-and-fx. It has 8 outputs that go to the 8 channel interface.

That is the widest mixer I could fit. It's great actually! The switcher will let me go from tracking the drums (8 channels), to tracking a different set of mics set up for something else, etc.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Dan LB » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:22 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:That kind of mixer with 16 mic inputs + all the other channels I need is way to wide to fit in my 19" cabinet top.

Not too wide at all... 4U height though.

Image


It’s actually not a bad solution. Think of it as a digital routing switcher of sorts.
16 mic inputs with any combination available on the 8 XLR outputs via scene memories.

The only ‘issue’ being the unnecessary A/D and D/A stages...... and price obviously.

As far as I know the scenes on the XR18 can be switched over MIDI so you could have a simple MIDI device hooked up to take care of that.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:56 pm

Dan LB wrote:
DC-Choppah wrote:That kind of mixer with 16 mic inputs + all the other channels I need is way to wide to fit in my 19" cabinet top.

Not too wide at all... 4U height though.

Image


It’s actually not a bad solution. Think of it as a digital routing switcher of sorts.
16 mic inputs with any combination available on the 8 XLR outputs via scene memories.

The only ‘issue’ being the unnecessary A/D and D/A stages...... and price obviously.

As far as I know the scenes on the XR18 can be switched over MIDI so you could have a simple MIDI device hooked up to take care of that.

If WIFi stops working you have no control of the thing. Lots of stories from people who embarrassed themselves not being able to change the mix becausr they lost WiFi.

Mic feeds back.
Where is the sound man?
Trying to get his WiFi to work.
Audience goes deaf
Customer is sad and wants money back

I prefer to reach over and turn a knob that remains physically connected.

For live sound this looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Dan LB » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:59 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:
Dan LB wrote:
DC-Choppah wrote:That kind of mixer with 16 mic inputs + all the other channels I need is way to wide to fit in my 19" cabinet top.

Not too wide at all... 4U height though.

Image


It’s actually not a bad solution. Think of it as a digital routing switcher of sorts.
16 mic inputs with any combination available on the 8 XLR outputs via scene memories.

The only ‘issue’ being the unnecessary A/D and D/A stages...... and price obviously.

As far as I know the scenes on the XR18 can be switched over MIDI so you could have a simple MIDI device hooked up to take care of that.

If WIFi stops working you have no control of the thing. Lots of stories from people who embarrassed themselves not being able to change the mix becausr they lost WiFi.

Mic feeds back.
Where is the sound man?
Trying to get his WiFi to work.
Audience goes deaf
Customer is sad and wants money back

I prefer to reach over and turn a knob that remains physically connected.

For live sound this looks like a disaster waiting to happen.


Not true, you can hardwire a laptop to control it - or a MIDI controller.

But yes I appreciate your concerns about WiFi
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Stratman57 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:28 am

Yes, WiFi on the XR18 is a bit iffy.

I use an external dual band router with mine, which allows me to have cat5 connections to the XR18, X-Touch controller, and a laptop to run XAir Edit and to multitrack record the gig over USB. I can still connect a tablet via the router WiFi for a front of house check.

Best of both worlds and fairly bomb proof.

(I mix the band from on stage)

Regards, Simon.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:59 am

Same experience here, XR-12, X32 Rack and Compact and a Mackie DL1608, I use Apple Airport routers and have very few problems, The built in router in the XR-12 is disappointing as it is only 2.4GHz. Cat5 hard wired is gonna work though and with an external router you get the best of both worlds.
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