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What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:06 pm

Dan LB wrote:
Not true, you can hardwire a laptop to control it - or a MIDI controller.

But yes I appreciate your concerns about WiFi

Of course, nothing ever goes wrong with laptops!
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:29 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:Of course, nothing ever goes wrong with laptops!

I understand the concern and reticence, of course. I've been caught out on the odd occasion myself with computer freezes and wi-fi dropouts.

Then again, I'd had problems with old-school analogue gear too -- radio mic dropouts, cables coming unplugged, power supply failures, and all manner of other very rare but highly annoying and embarrassing breakdowns. I've even had the sliding contacts coming adrift in Penny & Giles faders which makes it kinda tricky to close the channel in a hurry! :-)

The bottom line is that nothing is ever 100% reliable, but sensible installation and careful operation minimises the risks... On the upside, this new technology provides enormous practical and operational advantages in many situations, for very little money.

There are obviously pros and cons to consider, but in my experience and in general, the pros far outweigh the cons if you approach the technology sensibly!

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:30 pm

I am assuming that it is possible to monitor in the analog domain on the XR18's input channels?

But the XR18 digitizes the signals before routing them to the 8 channel aux outputs? If so then there is latency involved with this aux send? It is not done in the analog domain like an analog mixer? So if you monitor the 8 inputs to the DAW then there is latency there? Is that right? That would be fine for recording a gig, bit not for recording to a cue from the DAW.

The whole point of the analog mixer is zero latency monitoring of the actual inputs that go into the DAW while recording along with a cue from the DAW - including some send effects in the monitor mix. By doing things this way, the DAW buffer size can be high (say 1024) to handle all of the plugins and VIs running on the cue mix, but this has no impact on the live performers.

On top of this problem, you need another computer just to control the digital mixer?!? OR if you use the same computer that you are recording on, then the recording computer is competing for resources (latency source) with your ability to just turn a knob on the mixer?!?
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:36 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:So if you monitor the 8 inputs to the DAW then there is latency there? Is that right? That would be fine for recording a gig, bit not for recording to a cue from the DAW.

There is a latency, yes, but it's only the internal A-D and D-A converter chain delay. So maybe 1ms at standard sample rates, and less if using double or quad rates. There are very few situations where that kind of round trip latency causes problems.... but it is more than you'd get with an analogue desk, that's absolutely true.

...if you use the same computer that you are recording on, then the recording computer is competing for resources...

Not really -- the computer is only serving as a remote control which is trivial for resources. All the signal processing is taken care of in the digital mixer.

But hey -- it was just a suggestion as an elegant, quick, and very cost-effective way of solving your signal source selection problem, while also providing useful additional facilities... If you're dead against the idea of using a digital mixer as a convenient signal router then your only sensible options are the expense of a custom multi-channel relay-based signal switching box or a manual patch-bay.

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Stratman57 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:13 pm

The main point of using something like the XR18 is that you wouldn't need your analogue mixer at all, the XR18 is an 18 input audio interface as well as a mixer, so no need to switch banks of mics, you could have all your mics plugged in and routed to wherever you want them to go and record them all at the same time.

It also has the added bonus of switchable phantom power, compression/limiting, phase switching and various types of EQ on each individual channel.

Regards, Simon.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:43 pm

I appreciate the info guys, and the digital mixer is an option I would have not thought of without your help. Hard to keep up with all the options. That was new to me.

Thanks!

I guess I am still an analog kid though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56qyILcZZuY


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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby ef37a » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:45 am

Just thought DC? I suppose you could use TRS jack as a matrix "pin patch" as they do for synths?

You would use internally linked TRS plugs to effect the routing and since the circuits are not brought out to the outside world on TRS there should be no problem with phantom power?

Be nice and neat to use 3.5mm jacks but I am not sure of their reliablity?

Hmm, I shall have to find P&P. This might not work, could be pre-breakfast bllx!

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:50 am

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Martin Walker » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:44 pm

:clap: :thumbup:

That is indeed progress, and very smart it looks too!


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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby shayne.oneill » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:27 am

If you look around you might be able to pick an old distribution matrix switcher like Autopatch. That said Autopatch seem to have disapeared off the face of the earth (I think they got swallowed in a takeover by the Harman group). They used to do these big 64x64 matrix patchers thats you could program up however you want and control via RS232.

You'll still find some around like this:
https://www.amazon.com/AutoPatch-Rackmo ... B00BK9UT4M

Although that particular model wont fill your need I think. But it might give some hints as to what your google foo might need to be (Autopatch itself has very little google presence so I gather it must have died long ago)
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:11 am

Getting ready to wire this up ('cause I need to use it now).

Do you think I should use shielded cable internally for the connections between the jacks and switches, or will single wires be OK? Does it matter?


These are all raw mic signals from all around the project studio, right before going into the mixing board or outoboard mic preamps. Some of the mics I use are dynamic that use high gain preamps.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UCRoe ... QCfYcr9e-V
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:11 am

It's balanced lines, so the wires definitely need to be twisted. Personally, I'd just the standard mic cable from sockets to switches. You will need to have a think about how to pass the screens from the incoming multicore to the individual sockets in the neatest way without creating unwanted loops, while grounding the outer case itself, of course.
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