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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby MOF » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:14 pm

If your budget and rack space is limited then you’re going to have to forget about some bespoke system and buy two 8 way female xlr boxes to separate male xlr connectors and replug them each time you need a different recording area.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:31 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:A want all mics to switch into the mixing board to provide a surface to control the mix while tracking in groups of 8.
I'm not familiar with the mixer but I think most digital mixers of this ilk would let you connect 16 mics and then set up two different 'scenes' that would allow you to specify scene 1 outputing inputs 1-8 to aux 1-6 + main L&R, then scene 2 would do the same with inputs 9-16. To switch your set up all you'd need to do would be toggle between the scenes.

He says, in complete ignorance! :D
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:42 pm

Dave I get this now. I do have rack space available for that. Two rows of XLR mic inputs and a dpdt switch on each one. Outputs out the back to the mixer.

Need to get my son to solder this up for me!
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby MOF » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:49 pm

Alternatively you could use my original suggestion and get two eight way xlr boxes with the opposite sex D-sub connectors to one plugged into the mixer and just swap them over each time.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:08 pm

blinddrew wrote:
DC-Choppah wrote:A want all mics to switch into the mixing board to provide a surface to control the mix while tracking in groups of 8.
I'm not familiar with the mixer but I think most digital mixers of this ilk would let you connect 16 mics and then set up two different 'scenes' that would allow you to specify scene 1 outputing inputs 1-8 to aux 1-6 + main L&R, then scene 2 would do the same with inputs 9-16. To switch your set up all you'd need to do would be toggle between the scenes.

He says, in complete ignorance! :D

That kind of mixer with 16 mic inputs + all the other channels I need is way to wide to fit in my 19" cabinet top.

I have a 16 channel mixer that fits. 8 of these channels are for mics in the recording area.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... usb-and-fx. It has 8 outputs that go to the 8 channel interface.

That is the widest mixer I could fit. It's great actually! The switcher will let me go from tracking the drums (8 channels), to tracking a different set of mics set up for something else, etc.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Dan LB » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:22 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:That kind of mixer with 16 mic inputs + all the other channels I need is way to wide to fit in my 19" cabinet top.

Not too wide at all... 4U height though.

Image


It’s actually not a bad solution. Think of it as a digital routing switcher of sorts.
16 mic inputs with any combination available on the 8 XLR outputs via scene memories.

The only ‘issue’ being the unnecessary A/D and D/A stages...... and price obviously.

As far as I know the scenes on the XR18 can be switched over MIDI so you could have a simple MIDI device hooked up to take care of that.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:56 pm

Dan LB wrote:
DC-Choppah wrote:That kind of mixer with 16 mic inputs + all the other channels I need is way to wide to fit in my 19" cabinet top.

Not too wide at all... 4U height though.

Image


It’s actually not a bad solution. Think of it as a digital routing switcher of sorts.
16 mic inputs with any combination available on the 8 XLR outputs via scene memories.

The only ‘issue’ being the unnecessary A/D and D/A stages...... and price obviously.

As far as I know the scenes on the XR18 can be switched over MIDI so you could have a simple MIDI device hooked up to take care of that.

If WIFi stops working you have no control of the thing. Lots of stories from people who embarrassed themselves not being able to change the mix becausr they lost WiFi.

Mic feeds back.
Where is the sound man?
Trying to get his WiFi to work.
Audience goes deaf
Customer is sad and wants money back

I prefer to reach over and turn a knob that remains physically connected.

For live sound this looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Dan LB » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:59 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:
Dan LB wrote:
DC-Choppah wrote:That kind of mixer with 16 mic inputs + all the other channels I need is way to wide to fit in my 19" cabinet top.

Not too wide at all... 4U height though.

Image


It’s actually not a bad solution. Think of it as a digital routing switcher of sorts.
16 mic inputs with any combination available on the 8 XLR outputs via scene memories.

The only ‘issue’ being the unnecessary A/D and D/A stages...... and price obviously.

As far as I know the scenes on the XR18 can be switched over MIDI so you could have a simple MIDI device hooked up to take care of that.

If WIFi stops working you have no control of the thing. Lots of stories from people who embarrassed themselves not being able to change the mix becausr they lost WiFi.

Mic feeds back.
Where is the sound man?
Trying to get his WiFi to work.
Audience goes deaf
Customer is sad and wants money back

I prefer to reach over and turn a knob that remains physically connected.

For live sound this looks like a disaster waiting to happen.


Not true, you can hardwire a laptop to control it - or a MIDI controller.

But yes I appreciate your concerns about WiFi
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Stratman57 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:28 am

Yes, WiFi on the XR18 is a bit iffy.

I use an external dual band router with mine, which allows me to have cat5 connections to the XR18, X-Touch controller, and a laptop to run XAir Edit and to multitrack record the gig over USB. I can still connect a tablet via the router WiFi for a front of house check.

Best of both worlds and fairly bomb proof.

(I mix the band from on stage)

Regards, Simon.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:59 am

Same experience here, XR-12, X32 Rack and Compact and a Mackie DL1608, I use Apple Airport routers and have very few problems, The built in router in the XR-12 is disappointing as it is only 2.4GHz. Cat5 hard wired is gonna work though and with an external router you get the best of both worlds.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:06 pm

Dan LB wrote:
Not true, you can hardwire a laptop to control it - or a MIDI controller.

But yes I appreciate your concerns about WiFi

Of course, nothing ever goes wrong with laptops!
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:29 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:Of course, nothing ever goes wrong with laptops!

I understand the concern and reticence, of course. I've been caught out on the odd occasion myself with computer freezes and wi-fi dropouts.

Then again, I'd had problems with old-school analogue gear too -- radio mic dropouts, cables coming unplugged, power supply failures, and all manner of other very rare but highly annoying and embarrassing breakdowns. I've even had the sliding contacts coming adrift in Penny & Giles faders which makes it kinda tricky to close the channel in a hurry! :-)

The bottom line is that nothing is ever 100% reliable, but sensible installation and careful operation minimises the risks... On the upside, this new technology provides enormous practical and operational advantages in many situations, for very little money.

There are obviously pros and cons to consider, but in my experience and in general, the pros far outweigh the cons if you approach the technology sensibly!

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:30 pm

I am assuming that it is possible to monitor in the analog domain on the XR18's input channels?

But the XR18 digitizes the signals before routing them to the 8 channel aux outputs? If so then there is latency involved with this aux send? It is not done in the analog domain like an analog mixer? So if you monitor the 8 inputs to the DAW then there is latency there? Is that right? That would be fine for recording a gig, bit not for recording to a cue from the DAW.

The whole point of the analog mixer is zero latency monitoring of the actual inputs that go into the DAW while recording along with a cue from the DAW - including some send effects in the monitor mix. By doing things this way, the DAW buffer size can be high (say 1024) to handle all of the plugins and VIs running on the cue mix, but this has no impact on the live performers.

On top of this problem, you need another computer just to control the digital mixer?!? OR if you use the same computer that you are recording on, then the recording computer is competing for resources (latency source) with your ability to just turn a knob on the mixer?!?
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:36 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:So if you monitor the 8 inputs to the DAW then there is latency there? Is that right? That would be fine for recording a gig, bit not for recording to a cue from the DAW.

There is a latency, yes, but it's only the internal A-D and D-A converter chain delay. So maybe 1ms at standard sample rates, and less if using double or quad rates. There are very few situations where that kind of round trip latency causes problems.... but it is more than you'd get with an analogue desk, that's absolutely true.

...if you use the same computer that you are recording on, then the recording computer is competing for resources...

Not really -- the computer is only serving as a remote control which is trivial for resources. All the signal processing is taken care of in the digital mixer.

But hey -- it was just a suggestion as an elegant, quick, and very cost-effective way of solving your signal source selection problem, while also providing useful additional facilities... If you're dead against the idea of using a digital mixer as a convenient signal router then your only sensible options are the expense of a custom multi-channel relay-based signal switching box or a manual patch-bay.

H
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Stratman57 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:13 pm

The main point of using something like the XR18 is that you wouldn't need your analogue mixer at all, the XR18 is an 18 input audio interface as well as a mixer, so no need to switch banks of mics, you could have all your mics plugged in and routed to wherever you want them to go and record them all at the same time.

It also has the added bonus of switchable phantom power, compression/limiting, phase switching and various types of EQ on each individual channel.

Regards, Simon.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:43 pm

I appreciate the info guys, and the digital mixer is an option I would have not thought of without your help. Hard to keep up with all the options. That was new to me.

Thanks!

I guess I am still an analog kid though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56qyILcZZuY


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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby ef37a » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:45 am

Just thought DC? I suppose you could use TRS jack as a matrix "pin patch" as they do for synths?

You would use internally linked TRS plugs to effect the routing and since the circuits are not brought out to the outside world on TRS there should be no problem with phantom power?

Be nice and neat to use 3.5mm jacks but I am not sure of their reliablity?

Hmm, I shall have to find P&P. This might not work, could be pre-breakfast bllx!

Dave.
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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby DC-Choppah » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:50 am

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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby Martin Walker » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:44 pm

:clap: :thumbup:

That is indeed progress, and very smart it looks too!


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Re: What do you call this piece of gear that I need to have built?

Postby shayne.oneill » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:27 am

If you look around you might be able to pick an old distribution matrix switcher like Autopatch. That said Autopatch seem to have disapeared off the face of the earth (I think they got swallowed in a takeover by the Harman group). They used to do these big 64x64 matrix patchers thats you could program up however you want and control via RS232.

You'll still find some around like this:
https://www.amazon.com/AutoPatch-Rackmo ... B00BK9UT4M

Although that particular model wont fill your need I think. But it might give some hints as to what your google foo might need to be (Autopatch itself has very little google presence so I gather it must have died long ago)
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