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Recording an Orchestra - Cold

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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Arpangel » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:30 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:The four-mic array is basically a pair of cardioids (or hypo-cardioids) spaced at about 47cm, with a pair of omni outriggers spaced at 67cm, all four being angled outwards at 45 degrees from the centre line.

The cardioid/hypo-cardioid spacing can be adjusted to suit the acoustics, source width, and required stereo recording angle, but the omnis should always be 10cm further out to each side.... according to Tony, anyway. :-)

Balance the directional and omni pairs to taste...

H

That's interesting, I take it the two outer most mic's are Omni's? and the two in the centre are cardioids?

Highlighted...

That diagram is very confusing, it gives the impression that one colour is cardioid, and the other colour is omni, but that doesn't make sense,
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby hooty2 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:31 am

Pitching in here with possible loan of panamic cathedral stand if gig not too far away
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Wonks » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:58 am

hooty2 wrote:Pitching in here with possible loan of panamic cathedral stand if gig not too far away

It's in Stockport.
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby jimh76 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:14 am

Thanks for everyone's help on this.

I'll update on how it went. Thanks for the offer of equipment, but I'll see how I get on with my stuff

Jim
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:26 am

Arpangel wrote:That diagram is very confusing, it gives the impression that one colour is cardioid, and the other colour is omni, but that doesn't make sense,

I didn't draw it - -I didn't have the time -- I just borrowed it. The colours indicate the channels and the illustrated polar patterns indicate the, er, mic polar patterns! ;)

H
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Arpangel » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:44 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:That diagram is very confusing, it gives the impression that one colour is cardioid, and the other colour is omni, but that doesn't make sense,

I didn't draw it -- I didn't have the time -- I just borrowed it. The colours indicate the channels and the illustrated polar patterns indicate the, er, mic polar patterns! ;)

H

I didn't think you drew it! My god, have I forgotten to take my medication this morning?
:blush:
I didn't even notice the polar patterns, my fault agin, I am going (gone?) mad, you'll just have to bare with me...
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Wonks » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:01 pm

Wibble.
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:24 pm

Wonks wrote:Wibble.

... is the name of our dog! Or Miss Wibble, to be accurate!

Wibble on the hill.jpg


(13 month-old Red-Fox Labrador bitch, in case you were wondering!)
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Aural Reject » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:32 pm

jimh76 wrote:Thanks for everyone's help on this.

I'll update on how it went. Thanks for the offer of equipment, but I'll see how I get on with my stuff

Jim

It’s a wise move in a lot of ways - especially if you’re hoping for repeat business, because you don’t want to overpromise for future projects based on the gear you have to hand.

For example a recent high profile band in my field recently hired a studio who market themselves as specialists in the area. What they haven’t said is that there was an external engineer imported, few if any of the studio’s own mics were used, it’s being edited by an external academic and mixed by a third party studio...the only thing really brought to the party was the room...and guess why the mixing is required? Reading between the lines, although this product will be a great success, it potentially creates a road full of potholes for people who come after expecting the same.

Similarly I was in the lucky position that I could borrow stuff when I started out (regularly) so I essentially created a family sound with preferred (very expensive!) toys in various places. In order to continue that family I’ve bought my own set of everything....and it hasn’t come cheap...but I can continue to deliver based on the contents of my own boxes...

So...bravo for going for it, and best of luck!
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:04 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:(13 month-old Red-Fox Labrador bitch, in case you were wondering!)

I knew it! This place is going to the dogs.

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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby jimh76 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:27 am

Thanks for everyone's help on this.

I'll update on how it went. Thanks for the offer of equipment, but I'll see how I get on with my stuff

Jim
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby jimh76 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:33 am

Sorry about the double post. Not sure what happened there.

I've just had confirmation I'm doing the rehearsal on Sat at 1.30.

I'll update on Sunday.

Cheers. Jim
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Exalted Wombat » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:38 pm

You may not have the equipment for a true stereo recording. But I'd suggest that even an 'untrue' one, made with an un-matched pair, will sound better than mono.

You ask: "Would any of my setup sound better than a handheld recorder like the Zoom models?" Have you GOT a Zoom? I'd certainly consider stationing someone to hold it in 'the best seat in the house'. Maybe a pole? I've made some excellent recordings with the likes of a Zoom on a 'Deadhead' pole.

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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby Tim Gillett » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:29 am

Exalted Wombat wrote:You may not have the equipment for a true stereo recording. But I'd suggest that even an 'untrue' one, made with an un-matched pair, will sound better than mono.

You ask: "Would any of my setup sound better than a handheld recorder like the Zoom models?" Have you GOT a Zoom? I'd certainly consider stationing someone to hold it in 'the best seat in the house'. Maybe a pole? I've made some excellent recordings with the likes of a Zoom on a 'Deadhead' pole.

Agree with both comments.

The very first time I used my Zoom many years ago was at a very small venue where the manager would not allow any mic stands or cables. In any case I was preoccupied with operating two video cameras so I had a friend who was sitting in the best seat in the house ( we had arrived early) to hold the Zoom.

The only proviso might be to train the assistant to handle the recorder carefully to avoid handling noise. Alternatively, the assistant could place the recorder on a short, lightweight mic stand directly in front, in between the knees if needed. Since then I've always include a shock mount to isolate the Zoom mics from floor vibrations that may transmit up the mic stand.
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Re: Recording an Orchestra - Cold

Postby jimh76 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:53 pm

Hi sorry,

I think i confused people there. The people i am recordinghave prviously used a hand held device to record, so was just asking if my equipment would sound better.

Cheers

Jim
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