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Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:58 am

A decent pair of open back headphones like some AKG K702 would help, the Steinberg headphones you have are closed back and designed fro tracking rather than mixing.
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby Wonks » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:09 am

Those KRK 8400s are closed back headphones, not really the best type for mixing on (and the SOS review - which strangely forgets to state the headphone type - says they began to get fatiguing after an hour) .

As Sam (and almost everyone else) says, use open back headphones for mixing, especially at the mid-price end of the market.
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby dennisgamalej » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:10 am

Sam Spoons wrote:A decent pair of open back headphones like some AKG K702 would help, the Steinberg headphones you have are closed back and designed fro tracking rather than mixing.
Why do you think that open are better than closed?
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby CS70 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:13 am

dennisgamalej wrote:- reverb levels and overall in headphones it sounds good but when i listen for example in your car its too loud the vocal gaining sounds different than in speakers..... but now im using ST-H01 studio headphone. maybe its because its not the best headphone? thnx for help guys!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't know them but Steinberg is usually a good brand so shouldn't be a terrible problem. The only issue is that they are closed back and you may be a bit better with open back for mixing. But new gear shouldn't be your focus, at least at the beginning.

The reverb issue is a classic, and so is the vocal level. The key to overcome that is to train yourself to understand how your cans are changing the sound with respect to speakers - which in concrete means "which frequency bands stick out more or less" on your cans with respect to monitors/cars etc. and then you equalize for that.

For example:

- if your headphones are making say, the 5K plus region more prominent (so that when you listen on monitors it sounds dull), you use a gentle hi-shelf to raise the vocal there. You usually need just a little bit, so that the listening impression in the cans stays about the same, but in the monitors gets a little brighter.
- If you find that the your cans push the bass too much so that when you listen on speakers and car the bass is too low, the key is to find which bass region is boosted by the cans and, again, gently increase it a little bit (there are other tricks for bass but this is just about the headphones). Normally on a brad boost or cut you don't need more than two or three dB to make the difference (as the "base" sound should stay the same)

To learn that, you need references. Pick up a cd track that you think works well when listened to both your headphones and speakers and has a sound similar to your track, and A/B in order to evaluate what's missing (or too much) on either systems. Then you try to correct your tracks.

For example, I know that a good mix when listened on my 990Pro has basses that, to me, sound a little too big. So if I mix on cans I push them more than I would - and the bass usually plays fine on speakers and cars.

I recently got a new car and it's unbelievable how its sound system is different than the ones I'm used to.. I tested a mix on it and thought it was all wrong.. until I tested well mixed references and they sounded all wrong as well! The car's sound system has simply a very different sound, and I'm now getting used to it, so I once again can use it for testing.
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:40 am

Sam Spoons wrote:A decent pair of open back headphones like some AKG K702 would help, the Steinberg headphones you have are closed back and designed fro tracking rather than mixing.

Open backs are more accurate than closed backs. As a rule of thumb, closed back headphones for tracking so you don't get spill into the microphone and open backs for mixing because they sound more natural.
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby CS70 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:44 am

dennisgamalej wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:A decent pair of open back headphones like some AKG K702 would help, the Steinberg headphones you have are closed back and designed fro tracking rather than mixing.
Why do you think that open are better than closed?

As for the "why": in closed back headphones, the sound reflects from the "walls" of the cups with a very short delay (since the cups are very small), and the reflections tend to keep a good deal of energy (also since the cup itself is small).

That's the textbook definition of comb filtering - a type of interference between sound waves and their slightly-delayed, similar-energy reflections, that leads to certain frequencies will be canceled, other increased. So the timbre will be quite different from what you hear on speakers in a well-treated room.

Obviously manufacturers try to counter these effects but physics is physics so you can do only so much.

Open backs let the sound go, with much less reflections, and therefore the mix timbre will be more similar to how you hear on speakers.

You can use both types, but countering the filtering due to interference is harder as information is actually lost by the time the sound wave reaches you ears.
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby dennisgamalej » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:53 am

Guys one more question i dont like to open a new topic. Im looking also to buy a pc for recording mixing mastering... because my laptop is to bad for it. Are this specs okey for reaper and a loooot of waves plugins.


· Processor Xeon X5672 4 cores 3.2 -3.6 GHz Turbo Boost I7
· graphiccard Nvidia GTX 1060 3GB GDDR5
· 16Gb ram DDR3
· 500Gb HDD or i can choose SSD 120Gb
· Windows 10

thnx
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby CS70 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:39 am

Check out the thread at https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 20&t=67844 as it's very much the same question
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby dennisgamalej » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:43 am

Guys i was thinking the whole night today. Do you rlly need monitors i can buy them and just say to my neighbours sorry im learning how to mix and master or its also fine with headphones?my budget is maximum 200 euros for this.Which headphones or monitors would you recommend? Thnx guys for your help
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby Wonks » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:44 pm

I'd suggest Scan's refurbished AKG K702s. The K712s are very slightly better, but are a lot more money. I have both.

No point in spending more than you need.

Either this for £82.80: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/akg-k70 ... efurbished

Or for £59 if you can live without a box: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/akg-k70 ... nty-no-box

If you must have brand new, then still only £109. Much cheaper than they used to be after moving their manufacture out of Germany. https://www.scan.co.uk/products/akg-k70 ... k-over-ear
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby The Elf » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:57 pm

Wonks wrote:Or for £59 if you can live without a box: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/akg-k70 ... nty-no-box
You can't go wrong for that money!
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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:50 pm

That is amazing. I can vouch they're fine phones too and I'm wondering whether to get a spare pair at that price.

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Re: Is it possible to mix and master just with headphones?

Postby AMOS63 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:36 am

I used to use nothing but AKG K-240 headphones but now I use nothing but KRK Rokit monitors. They're not the best but they give me a more accurate representation of what's actually being recorded, or edited later on.
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