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Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

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Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby gtorassa » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:59 pm

Hi everybody
I'm trying to set up a mini audio recording studio in my house.
I have a Yamaha electric piano yhat I use as a MIDI keyboard connected to a PC with Cakewalk.
I use the keyboard as an input and the PC as an output (using the synthetizer included with Cakewalk).
Everything is fine with my Apple MAC with Garageband, but with the PC with Cakewalk I hear a delay between the key pressed on the kayboard and the sound from the PC.
Have I to buy a soundcard or is it a matter of configuration?

Details of my PC follow:
- CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2400G
- Motherboard: ASRock AB350 Pro4
- RAM: 16GB DDR4-2400

Thanks for any help you can give me, I'm getting crazy :madas:

Bye
giorgio
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby CS70 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:51 am

Worth trying the configuration first.

Assuming you experience this with just one track - a synth that's driven by your midi device, your ASIO buffer is probably too high. Try to get it down as much as you ca: the interface driver usually installs an element in the control panel, to which you can also get from cakewalk's preferences.

When it's too high you experience excessive latency. When it's too low you experience clicks and drops. If you find a setting where latency is unnoticeable and sound is alright, you're all set.

If you don't, it can be either the computer or the interface.

The computer - especially laptops - may have components which interrupt the CPU too often and make it so that they can't work well with real time processing. This is inherent to the design of PCs, where components manufactured by completely independent parties integrate for the final result.

It can also be simple firmware or Windows configuration - for example disable the C states, CPU core throttling, USB ports power management etc - all stuff that is very useful to keep energy consumption down but generates a huge amount of interrupts.

On the interface side, the USB ASIO drivers themselves can be better or worse written. Most interfaces use off the shelf chips whose drivers are written by the chip manufacturer, which isn't having audio as a primary target. A few - RME, or one Presonus, have much more attention to driver optimization and can work well with much lower ASIO buffer sizes.

The yamaha is not among the best alas, so if you've really optimized your machine and still you don't find a workable ASIO buffer size setting, you may thing of chaning interface or pc..
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby ef37a » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:05 am

CS70, from my reading OP is trying to use the built in laptop soundcard?
No ASIO and not likely to work at low latency.

I shall of course suggest the Native Instruments Kompete Audio 6.

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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby James Perrett » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:06 pm

I'm not sure how Cakewalk handles audio drivers these days, but it probably defaults to the basic Windows driver which will have a high latency. It would probably be worth trying an alternative driver type or downloading ASIO4All if your version of Cakewalk supports ASIO drivers.
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby ef37a » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:30 pm

James Perrett wrote:I'm not sure how Cakewalk handles audio drivers these days, but it probably defaults to the basic Windows driver which will have a high latency. It would probably be worth trying an alternative driver type or downloading ASIO4All if your version of Cakewalk supports ASIO drivers.

I have a dim memory coming through..My son had Cakewalk Ess6 and loved the MIDI sounds, preferred them over Cubase (ess6) but, even with a 2496 PCI card we could never get really low latency. Cubase was blistering so he used to write his stuff with that then export the MIDI data to Cakewalk.

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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby The Elf » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:22 pm

Try downloading ASIO4ALL and using its drivers. Often you can get latency down to a reasonable level, even with dodgy PC built-in audio facilities.

If that fails you need to look at a proper audio interface, as has already been said.

To be truthful, if you want to do anything even remotely serious with audio you should look at a proper audio interface anyway - and get one with MIDI ports.
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby CS70 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:01 am

Right, just assumed he had an interface but there's no mention of it in the OP. Too late last night :D

Sonar can use WDM drivers and in exclusive mode they do pretty much the same as ASIO, but I vaguely remember the recommended option for internal soundcards is MME.

It may work but it's ancient stuff, and there's a bunch of likely issues with it on modern hardware/software. Agree that an good but inexpensive sound card like the NI would help the OP immensely.
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby gtorassa » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:15 am

Thanks to everybody.
I'll try to work with drivers (using ASIO drivers if needed) hoping that will help.

I'm using a low price MIDI interface to connect my keyboard to the PC.
I haven't installed any specific driver (my PC recognized the MIDI interface).
I wonder why my MAC worked very well without any specific configuration (no delay at all) while my PC has this awful delay.

I have to add that the problem seems to be present just when I use MIDI as an input and Cakewalk synthetizer as an output.
If I use my keyboard both as an input and as an output everything seems to work well.

Bye
giorgio
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby gtorassa » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:59 am

ef37a wrote:CS70, from my reading OP is trying to use the built in laptop soundcard?
No ASIO and not likely to work at low latency.

I shall of course suggest the Native Instruments Kompete Audio 6.

Dave.

I'm looking at the Kompete Audio 6, really nice HW, I'm thinking about buying it.
Just a question, is it compatible with all DAW Softwares (e.g. Cakewalk) or I have to use it with the included Cubase LE only?
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby ef37a » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:26 pm

gtorassa wrote:
ef37a wrote:CS70, from my reading OP is trying to use the built in laptop soundcard?
No ASIO and not likely to work at low latency.

I shall of course suggest the Native Instruments Kompete Audio 6.

Dave.

I'm looking at the Kompete Audio 6, really nice HW, I'm thinking about buying it.
Just a question, is it compatible with all DAW Softwares (e.g. Cakewalk) or I have to use it with the included Cubase LE only?

It will work with any software. Mine runs Samplitude Pro X 3 but also Audacity, Cubase (rarely) and a very old copy of AA1.5 and in fact any gash software I download and have a play with!

The KA6 has also been used on XP, W10, even Blista and I know of at least 2 mac users and a Linux nut!

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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby Pete Kaine » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:06 pm

gtorassa wrote:I'm looking at the Kompete Audio 6, really nice HW, I'm thinking about buying it.
Just a question, is it compatible with all DAW Softwares (e.g. Cakewalk) or I have to use it with the included Cubase LE only?

Anything that has ASIO drivers, should be ale to work with anything that supports ASIO.
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby Folderol » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:28 pm

ef37a wrote:
gtorassa wrote:
ef37a wrote:CS70, from my reading OP is trying to use the built in laptop soundcard?
No ASIO and not likely to work at low latency.

I shall of course suggest the Native Instruments Kompete Audio 6.

Dave.

I'm looking at the Kompete Audio 6, really nice HW, I'm thinking about buying it.
Just a question, is it compatible with all DAW Softwares (e.g. Cakewalk) or I have to use it with the included Cubase LE only?

It will work with any software. Mine runs Samplitude Pro X 3 but also Audacity, Cubase (rarely) and a very old copy of AA1.5 and in fact any gash software I download and have a play with!

The KA6 has also been used on XP, W10, even Blista and I know of at least 2 mac users and a Linux nut!

Dave.

the KA6 is a very robust and solidly built bit of kit. Mine has traveeled all round Britain and part way round Europe - usually squashed in a bag of miscellaneous 'essentials'
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby taran2ula » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:34 pm

Hello everyone and good evening to you all. I am having a similar problem with unbearable latency with my Alesis VI49 controller and Ableton Live 10. I have Windows 10 running on an Intel CPU i7 Quad core 4790K @ 4GHZ and 16 gb ram and 64bit Windows Pro. When I hit the keys on my Alesis I hear at least 3/4 sec delay and it is driving me absolutely nuts. I fiddled with the buffer size both up and down and heard no difference. Not even any popping sounds at all. I am using the ASIO4ALL drivers in the DAW. I tried every setting recommended from countless forums regarding this issue and I can not get rid of this lag when I play my controller. My sound output comes from a Geforce GTX970 video card via an HDMI output to my Denon surround unit so I can use the Denon to control all my gaming devices and my PC through HDMI inputs. I do have a sound card hard wired to my motherboard which is a Gigabyte high end gaming system board, but I don't think it is active because it must be coming from the video card, as I use an HDMI out for both video and sound and have no other connection out for sound other than this HDMI out from the video card . Am I getting this lag because of my sound coming from this Geforce video/sound card? Should I buy a high end sound card/audio interface? If I did, would this stop the ridiculous latency in my controller keyboard? I can not play it live because the timing is so far off. If I should buy a new sound car/audio interface, any suggestions? I am only interested in using the DAW to sketch out songs and then play the VST sounds and record them for later use. I use a Tascam DP32SD desktop unit for recording and can not stand PC recording because of all these issues with latency. I have several workstation keyboards too that I could use via their midi outs but I don't want to feel like I wasted the money on the Alesis VI49. Anyway, many apologies for my long muddled bunch of questions. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. I swear Im going to tear my hair out of my head over this. Cheers all and happy evening. :)
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby ef37a » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:14 am

taran2ula wrote:Hello everyone and good evening to you all. I am having a similar problem with unbearable latency with my Alesis VI49 controller and Ableton Live 10. I have Windows 10 running on an Intel CPU i7 Quad core 4790K @ 4GHZ and 16 gb ram and 64bit Windows Pro. When I hit the keys on my Alesis I hear at least 3/4 sec delay and it is driving me absolutely nuts. I fiddled with the buffer size both up and down and heard no difference. Not even any popping sounds at all. I am using the ASIO4ALL drivers in the DAW. I tried every setting recommended from countless forums regarding this issue and I can not get rid of this lag when I play my controller. My sound output comes from a Geforce GTX970 video card via an HDMI output to my Denon surround unit so I can use the Denon to control all my gaming devices and my PC through HDMI inputs. I do have a sound card hard wired to my motherboard which is a Gigabyte high end gaming system board, but I don't think it is active because it must be coming from the video card, as I use an HDMI out for both video and sound and have no other connection out for sound other than this HDMI out from the video card . Am I getting this lag because of my sound coming from this Geforce video/sound card? Should I buy a high end sound card/audio interface? If I did, would this stop the ridiculous latency in my controller keyboard? I can not play it live because the timing is so far off. If I should buy a new sound car/audio interface, any suggestions? I am only interested in using the DAW to sketch out songs and then play the VST sounds and record them for later use. I use a Tascam DP32SD desktop unit for recording and can not stand PC recording because of all these issues with latency. I have several workstation keyboards too that I could use via their midi outs but I don't want to feel like I wasted the money on the Alesis VI49. Anyway, many apologies for my long muddled bunch of questions. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. I swear Im going to tear my hair out of my head over this. Cheers all and happy evening. :)

Your post is very hard for me to read. Please break your ideas into paragraphs.

I get however that you do not have a "proper" audio interface with actual ASIO drivers? I do not think gaming audio devices are designed for low latency.

Interfaces (USB) by any of the well known names, Tascam, Focusrite, Native Instruments and the daddy of them all, RME will have good to superb drivers.

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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby CS70 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:31 pm

taran2ula wrote:I am using the ASIO4ALL drivers in the DAW

Don't. That's your problem. Asio4All is not made for real time playing/recording.
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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby ef37a » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:09 pm

CS70 wrote:
taran2ula wrote:I am using the ASIO4ALL drivers in the DAW

Don't. That's your problem. Asio4All is not made for real time playing/recording.

Agreed but that might be the best OP can use with his interface?

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Re: Delay problem with MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk

Postby CS70 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:21 pm

ef37a wrote:
CS70 wrote:
taran2ula wrote:I am using the ASIO4ALL drivers in the DAW

Don't. That's your problem. Asio4All is not made for real time playing/recording.

Agreed but that might be the best OP can use with his interface?

Dave.

As I understand, he doesn't have one - he needs an audio interface :-)

ASIO4All is brilliant for playing back audio when you don't have an interface handy, but it very seldom can be used for recording and live playing; the fact that the OP goes thru HDMI in and out slows things down even more - it's like go buy cigarettes at the store on the corner by taking first a bus to the city and back. There's no way to make it work.

What he needs is an interface with an ASIO driver.
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