You are here

Orchestral reverb spacing

For everything after the recording stage: hardware/software and how you use it.

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:07 pm

I guess it depends on what orchestral layout you're trying to model.... ;)

Really, I understand you want it to 'be right' but there is no 'right' because every orchestra is different and their seating plans change with different venues and different repertoires.

So just fiddle with the panning until it sounds right to you... but as the Elf says, the image width tends to decrease the further away things are...

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 28327
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Moroccomoose » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:41 pm

Thanks, that settles the argument in my mind! I was torn between visualising panning as an angle in the sonic field, or as a distance to the right or left from the listening position. By visualising as an angle, no need to push things further L or R as they radiate away from the listening position.

Right - now to set up all the articulations :headbang: :beamup:

Cheers!
Moroccomoose
Regular
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:00 am
Location: Staffordshire
 

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Peterlkarl » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:46 am

I always set up 3-4 reverbs in DP, though not usually to simulate an orchestral performance environment. If I'm understanding what you're trying to, you could just set up 4 stereo Aux sends and returns, each with similar Proverb impulse responses employed, but varying pre-delay settings, (and maybe progressively longer decay times). Have a ball!
User avatar
Peterlkarl
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:55 am

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby The Elf » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:56 am

Peterlkarl wrote:I always set up 3-4 reverbs in DP, though not usually to simulate an orchestral performance environment. If I'm understanding what you're trying to, you could just set up 4 stereo Aux sends and returns, each with similar Proverb impulse responses employed, but varying pre-delay settings, (and maybe progressively longer decay times). Have a ball!
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.

Try it yourself and see.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14881
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Zukan » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:39 am

Good technique Elf. I like.
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 8972
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby tadghostal » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:55 am

This is an excellent source of info! Thanks Elf and co. I've learned a lot just by reading this and trying it out. I'm going to incorporate it into my newbie work and see how it pans out
tadghostal
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:11 am

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:33 pm

tadghostal wrote:This is an excellent source of info! Thanks Elf and co. I've learned a lot just by reading this and trying it out. I'm going to incorporate it into my newbie work and see how it pans out

Of course you get extra SOS forum points for managing to slip in a pun there tadhostal :clap:


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 16239
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby ManFromGlass » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:28 pm

Pantastic ;)
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3331
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Wonks » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:49 pm

Don't fader way.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10889
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby ManFromGlass » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:16 pm

the constitution of an aux
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3331
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Gone To Lunch » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:20 pm

The Elf wrote:
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.

Try it yourself and see.

Indeed I did try this and that is exactly what I found, it is less cluttered and more convincing.

But I also grouped some of the sends thus, because it is such a PITA to use microscopic send controls in DP, I send individual instruments to a shared reverb aux bus thus

Strings - Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vc, DB
WindsL - flute, oboe etc
WindsR- clarinets
Perc - all of them
Horns
Trumpets
Tbones
Piano, Mallets remain individual

However the indiv instruments are panned individually, they just share a common reverb

The reverb sends from the aux bus are varied to fake distance thus

B - Perc = 0
BM - Brass -4
FM - Winds -8
F - Strings - 12

Keys and Mallets in between BM & FM - 6

This is the best so far, but of course I am now drowning in the hell of infinite editing opportunities without a deadline to meet.
Gone To Lunch
Frequent Poster
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:00 am
Location: London
http://www.gonetolunchmusic.com/

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:40 pm

That looks as if you are delaying the strings and not the percussion, surely the percussion, who are at the front of the orchestra, would need more delay than the percussion who are at the back?
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13363
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Wonks » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:45 am

Sam Spoons wrote:That looks as if you are delaying the strings and not the percussion, surely the percussion, who are at the front of the orchestra, would need more delay than the percussion who are at the back?

Percussion front and back? Obviously a severe case of 'more cowbell'.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10889
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:13 am

Bugger :blush: , changed my mind on the phrasing but buggered up my edit (in my defence it was well past beer-o'clock).......

Percussion at back, long delay, strings at front short or no delay.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13363
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

Postby jimjazzdad » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:25 pm

Gone To Lunch wrote:
The Elf wrote:
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.

Try it yourself and see.

Indeed I did try this and that is exactly what I found, it is less cluttered and more convincing.

But I also grouped some of the sends thus, because it is such a PITA to use microscopic send controls in DP, I send individual instruments to a shared reverb aux bus thus

Strings - Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vc, DB
WindsL - flute, oboe etc
WindsR- clarinets
Perc - all of them
Horns
Trumpets
Tbones
Piano, Mallets remain individual

However the indiv instruments are panned individually, they just share a common reverb

The reverb sends from the aux bus are varied to fake distance thus

B - Perc = 0
BM - Brass -4
FM - Winds -8
F - Strings - 12

Keys and Mallets in between BM & FM - 6

This is the best so far, but of course I am now drowning in the hell of infinite editing opportunities without a deadline to meet.
Wow. Reading this makes my small but orderly brain hurt! This is exactly why I like to capture orchestra as simply as possible - an MS pair or maybe spaced omnis - and add a bit of Bricasti dust on the stereo bus as required. A well placed coincident pair will always give a more realistic image with depth than any amount of hocus pocus in post... (just my humble opinion; carry on!)
jimjazzdad
Regular
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:00 am
Halifax, NS, CANADA

PreviousNext