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Bose S-1 battery issues

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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:33 am

Thanks Paul.

Here's the post for reference:

Bose Tech Support wrote:Hi, Everyone.

Thanks for being patient.

If your S1 Pro system battery is draining when the system is not in use and not connected to AC power, please contact Bose Support. They will work with you to get your S1 system repaired.

Bose® Product & Technical Support at (877) 335-2673
(U.S. and Canada only)
Monday-Friday: 9:00 AM - 9:00 PM ET
Other regions

The local Bose Support representatives can answer any further questions.

Thank you.

ST

https://www.bosepro.community/g/portable/topic/s1-pro-battery-draining-when-not-in-use?reply=40442221528412738#40442221528412738

For those in the UK, the appropriate contact details are:

Bose Support UK
Tel 01634 224 288 (Mon - Fri: 09:00-18:30, Sat 09:00-17:00 GMT)

Email: technical_support_uk@bose.com
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:39 am

Mine went two weeks ago, a week before Bose announced the fix, as the UK rep was aware* and my dealer kept me in the loop. Hope to have it back before Christmas and will test in the New Year to see if they really have fixed it.

* He said it involved changing a single component but, as I didn't speak to him myself, I don't know it that was a single SMC device or a complete circuit board. A user on the Bose forums said his customer service rep said it involves both a hardware repair and firmware update so what they are actually repairing is still unclear (but I'm not going to be dismantling mine to look for fresh solder :D )
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Guest » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:50 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:
Which brings me to the problem....... When fully charged it will run for several hours on battery power so all good, but, I left it in the car for a few days while on hols and took it out for a rehearsal the day before the gig and it was flat. It had been fully charged when I put it in the car and, I confirmed, had not been accidentally switched on. I subsequently tested it by fully charging and leaving it for a few days in a 'safe place' where there was no risk of it being switched on by mistake. Sure enough it was nearly flat when I switched it on and a further check showed the battery was losing roughly 5% of it's charge a day even when switched off.
With out reading all 4 pages, at a star I would say the battery is discharging and a load is being draw somewhere.
Connecting a multi meter to it when switch off and having it set to amps draw would tell you if there was a discharge going on or not
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Rob Kirkwood » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:28 am

tonyztigger wrote:With out reading all 4 pages, at a star I would say the battery is discharging and a load is being draw somewhere.
Connecting a multi meter to it when switch off and having it set to amps draw would tell you if there was a discharge going on or not
Unfortunately the S1 battery pack fits into the unit, is held with 4 bolts, and is very much like a PC laptop battery - it has multiple connections set into a plastic socket to protect them.

So, the only sensible way to do this would be to take an S1 apart - but, because they're relatively new, they're all still under manufacturer warranty (2 years) so I don't think any of us are brave enough to do so just yet! Mine is coming up to 1 year old, so I've still got a way to go before I'm likely to look inside.

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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:52 am

Exactly :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Guest » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:48 pm

not if you can get the meters to fit on the charging pin it wont!
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:55 pm

I agree with Rob, it's not practically possible without fairly drastic surgery. Not sure what you mean about the charging pin?
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Rob Kirkwood » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:54 pm

This is the S1 Pro battery pack...
https://www.thomann.de/gb/bose_s1_pro_battery_pack.htm

There are 8 (I think) connections between battery & S1, none of them are identified on either the battery or the S1, and I've not yet found a circuit diagram anywhere for it.

You could conjure up an 8 way extender, but even then what do you measure?

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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Guest » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:03 am

the charger pin! where you plug your mains charger into it
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:06 am

There isn't one on the S1 Pro (well there is, it's one of the 8 shrouded pins under the battery).
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:02 pm

Latest update.

My S1 Pro arrived back from service and I collected it on Tuesday, I fully charged it and have left it switched off since. I will monitor the battery charge state every couple of days until I need to use it at my monthly open mic in two weeks time.

Several other users have received their S1s back from 'repair' and a significant proportion still have 'the issue' so it appears that Bose's 'fix' is not a fix at all. I'm following the Bose forum threads WRT this issue as, at some point soon, I will have to decide whether to keep the S1 and live with the problem or return it for a refund and wait for another manufacturer to build something similar (FWIW I tried the only currently available alternative from a 'name' manufacturer, a JBL Eon Compact and found the sound quality to be very harsh in the upper mids).
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:32 pm

Thanks for the update Sam. I haven't sent mine back yet. I was planning to wait until after Xmas... but I'm somewhat surprised to hear that 'the fix' hasn't actually cured the issue.

However, I'm not really bothered about battery drain in storage, and even though it shouldn't happen at the rate it apparently does, I suspect the reality is that it doesn't affect many people's use of the thing in practice.

I've never taken gear out on a job without checking and prepping it before hand, so it feels entirely normal to me to charge the battery shortly before use, rather than expect it still to be functional after weeks or months in storage.

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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:41 pm

Nine times out of ten I will be in the same situation but I spend 5 weeks in my caravan in the summer and while mains power is available space is at a premium so having to charge the S1 (and the potential second S1) for a few hours is inconvenient. I could do it but should not have to. If it was a £200 box from LD or Alto I think I'd be more tolerant of the issue but the S1 is a premium product and should, as you say, be free from such defects.

I've had mine for 6 months now but my dealer has assured me he will honour our verbal agreement to refund should Bose be unable to cure the issue. I will be very happy it it proves to be fixed and I can buy a second one without worrying that it may have the same problems.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:09 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:I could do it but should not have to. If it was a £200 box from LD or Alto I think I'd be more tolerant of the issue but the S1 is a premium product and should, as you say, be free from such defects.

:lol: I understand where you're coming from. The S1 doesn't do what you hoped it would do...

I approach it from a different direction where I expect batteries to drain over time. I use a Nagra VI as my go-to location recorder... now that really is a premium product... But if I don't use it for a month I know its battery will be flat because of the drain of the internal timecode generator and clock which run all the time. Hence checking and charging everything shortly before use in my world...
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:39 pm

I also think we've become used to other devices like, digital cameras and other such that can be left for days or weeks (or even years) without the battery showing an signs of discharge.

Maybe my expectations are too high but, as Bose have acknowledged that there is a fault, I don't think so in this case.

WRT your Nagra, the battery drain while in storage is, I assume, the known consequence of the design choices made rather than a fault?

Anyway, I'll switch the S1 on for a minute or so tonight, 2 days after charging it, and fully expect it to be registering 100%. Will keep you posted.

BTW Hugh, did you have the opportunity to check if your S1 actually has the issue (I still think they probably all do to differing extents). I also wonder (in a slightly dodgy 'conspiracy theorist' sort of way) if the 30 day sleep mode the S1 battery has is a sneaky attempt to hide the issue........ Sorry, just gotta go and put my tinfoil hat on.......
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:53 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Maybe my expectations are too high but, as Bose have acknowledged that there is a fault, I don't think so in this case.

No, I don't think your expectations are too high at all. It shouldn't discharge as quickly as it does, and it is definitely a design or manufacturing fault.

My only point is that I don't think the practical consequences are significant for the majority of its owners/users in normal applications and usage. Clearly, your requirements are unusual and more demanding than most.

WRT your Nagra, the battery drain while in storage is, I assume, the known consequence of the design choices made rather than a fault?

Yes, quite. Like so many modern devices, it is running some processes in the background all the time, so some degree of battery drain over time is inevitably.

Anyway, I'll switch the S1 on for a minute or so tonight, 2 days after charging it, and fully expect it to be registering 100%. Will keep you posted.

:thumbup:

BTW Hugh, did you have the opportunity to check if your S1 actually has the issue.

Yes, it's been stored in my man-cave for a month or so, and when I flicked it on to check yesterday it was flat.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:15 pm

:thumbup:

Hugh Robjohns wrote:My only point is that I don't think the practical consequences are significant for the majority of its owners/users in normal applications and usage. Clearly, your requirements are unusual and more demanding than most.

Agreed, and I could probably manage but, once I discovered the issue my OCD kicks in and nags me constantly "the S1 doesn't work properly....." :blush:

As you know I have taken pains to point out at every opportunity that 'the issue' does not affect the S1 in 'normal' usage. I would not like to put potential purchasers of what is, in almost every way, an excellent bit of kit.

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
BTW Hugh, did you have the opportunity to check if your S1 actually has the issue.

Yes, it's been stored in my man-cave for a month or so, and when I flicked it on to check yesterday it was flat.

You haven't fallen foul of the 30 day 'sleep' mode have you? The battery shuts itself down after 30 days and needs the S1 plugging into the mains for a few seconds/minutes to 'wake it up'?
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:27 pm

Possibly. Not sure how long it's been in there to be honest... we had a lot of other stuff going on here before Xmas. I'll try and check it out more thoroughly when I get a chance.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby James Perrett » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:30 pm

As I think I mentioned before, keeping a lithium rechargeable battery fully charged continuously can be a dangerous way to store it. I don't have a link to the paper immediately to hand but there is strong evidence that battery fires are more likely to occur close to full charge and very rarely happen at less than 70% charge. The Boeing Dreamliner battery fires were probably caused by this issue as they were trying to use a lithium battery in the same way that you would normally use a lead acid battery by keeping the battery charge continually topped up. Rather stupidly (in my opinion) Boeing still use the same charging regime but the batteries are now housed in a more fireproof box since the fires.

Raw lithium rechargeable cells come about 30-40% charged from the manufacturer and they will keep this charge for years (at least 6 in my personal experience).

It might be safer to charge your S-1 battery up to 50 or 60% and then monitor the discharge rather than charge them fully.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:38 pm

I'll look into that James*, Most of the time 50% charge would easily get me through a gig.

The 30 sleep mode is also described as shipping mode and is, apparently, to reduce the risk of batteries draining completely while shipping, in the warehouse or in other storage.

Hugh, if you plug your S1 in for a few seconds and then switch it on it should wake up the battery if it has any charge remaining and then you could unplug it and check the batteries remaining charge level (not use if the app shows charge level when the S1 is plugged in).

* was this the issue that was causing iPhones to get dangerously hot and occasionally catching fire a couple of years ago?
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