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Low cost field recording rig?

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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Bob Bickerton » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:41 am

I know what you mean about the cost of those blimps but you do get what you pay for.

Prior to buying the Rycote ORTF windshield, I was using a couple of their 5cm Super Softies https://www.thomann.de/gb/rycote_super_softie_5cm_24_25.htm. Not quite as good as the full blown windshield but still very effective.

If you were interested I could record a few things with my CM3s to give you an idea of how they behave (I haven’t tried them myself for ambient recording as I have the MKHs - but I am curious to know if my prediction is workable!)

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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby wireman » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:06 am

I have a Rycote Baby Ball Gag Windshield which would be intermediate in size but I don't know much about the relative performance of the various wind isolation options.
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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:13 am

As promised here is the binaural version of the carol. As before no processing has been applied at all apart from the DearVR Ambi Micro plugin which converts the ambisonic B format output of the Hr-VR into stereo binaural. Obviously best listened to on headphones but doesn't sound unreasonable on speakers.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t9hd4c9ycgoi9 ... l.wav?dl=0

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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Bob Bickerton » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:19 am

wireman wrote:I have a Rycote Baby Ball Gag Windshield which would be intermediate in size but I don't know much about the relative performance of the various wind isolation options.

I had both the baby ball gag and super softie. The baby ball gag was more effective but the difference was fairly minimal and from memory somewhat frequency dependent. There’s an A/B comparison somewhere online.

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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby The Elf » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:26 am

Arpangel wrote:I could go M&S as that’s easier to mount, butI don’t want to bother with decoding etc.
Don't know why you feel this is a 'bother'?

If the device you're recording with supports M/S it will do the decoding for you, back in your DAW you just insert the free MSED plug-in - job done. From your point of view it's just 'normal' stereo.
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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby MOF » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:00 pm

Arpangel wrote:
I could go M&S as that’s easier to mount, butI don’t want to bother with decoding etc.
Don't know why you feel this is a 'bother'?

If the device you're recording with supports M/S it will do the decoding for you, back in your DAW you just insert the free MSED plug-in - job done. From your point of view it's just 'normal' stereo.

It’s not the first thread I’ve seen where someone thinks it’s a chore to decode M/S recordings. Pre DAW days it was, but so easy now.
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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Dan LB » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:45 pm

Bob Bickerton wrote:I wouldn’t want to use shotguns or omnis for stereo field recording (unless you’re thinking binaural).

Why so Bob?

I use a pair of omni SDCs spaced around 20cm for stereo field recording and find the results very natural. They are also a bit less susceptible to wind noise than cardioids but I use them with softies all the same.

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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:27 pm

I think it comes down to what you want to achieve. A spaced-omni technique doesn't give any front/back separation. If you're just recording a general ambience effect that obviously won't matter and may even be a bonus. But if you're after a sound in a specific location, some directivity to focus on the wanted source and reduce any unwanted ambient sounds may be more useful.

Using shotgun mics for stereo can be done, but it's very easy to have a big hole in the centre if you're not very careful, and off-axis sound sources can be very phasey-sounding, especially if they're moving in relation to the mic array.

Personally, when I'm out and about recording natural sounds I tend to use an MS pair (Sennheiser MKH 30/40 or 30/50 usually, sometimes a 30/20 combo) in a Rycote Cyclone windshield, supplemented with a pair of spaced DPA 4060 Cores (personal mics) which are mounted on FM radio aerials to allow me to easily adjust their positioning. All recorded onto a Nagra VI.

Image

Or if I need to be more compact, I'll use one or other of those rigs feeding into a Sound Devices two-channel preamp with MS decoding and monitoring, and record its (unbalanced) output onto an Olympus LS11.

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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Bob Bickerton » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:26 pm

Dan LB wrote:
Bob Bickerton wrote:I wouldn’t want to use shotguns or omnis for stereo field recording (unless you’re thinking binaural).

Why so Bob?

I use a pair of omni SDCs spaced around 20cm for stereo field recording and find the results very natural. They are also a bit less susceptible to wind noise than cardioids but I use them with softies all the same.

Dan

What Hugh said.

I like some directional information and have found the wide cardioids of the MKH8090s give me that whilst still giving an expansive soundscape.

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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Dan LB » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:36 pm

Ah yes of course! Makes sense! :thumbup:
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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Arpangel » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:30 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I think it comes down to what you want to achieve. A spaced-omni technique doesn't give any front/back separation. If you're just recording a general ambience effect that obviously won't matter and may even be a bonus. But if you're after a sound in a specific location, some directivity to focus on the wanted source and reduce any unwanted ambient sounds may be more useful.

Using shotgun mics for stereo can be done, but it's very easy to have a big hole in the centre if you're not very careful, and off-axis sound sources can be very phasey-sounding, especially if they're moving in relation to the mic array.

Personally, when I'm out and about recording natural sounds I tend to use an MS pair (Sennheiser MKH 30/40 or 30/50 usually, sometimes a 30/20 combo) in a Rycote Cyclone windshield, supplemented with a pair of spaced DPA 4060 Cores (personal mics) which are mounted on FM radio aerials to allow me to easily adjust their positioning. All recorded onto a Nagra VI.

Image

Or if I need to be more compact, I'll use one or other of those rigs feeding into a Sound Devices two-channel preamp with MS decoding and monitoring, and record its (unbalanced) output onto an Olympus LS11.

H

I’ve got the MKH30/40 combo too, it does seem a shame not to use them in this role, I think I’m going to have to persevere with M&S until I get it right, I think my Tascam DR100 does support it.
My experience with omni's for recording outdoors so far has been bad, the sources are always (mostly) in a situation where there is a road, or unwanted sound source somewhere, and cardioids always help to minimise these sounds.
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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby MOF » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:38 am

I’ve got the MKH30/40 combo too, it does seem a shame not to use them in this role, I think I’m going to have to persevere with M&S until I get it right, I think my Tascam DR100 does support it.
You put the mid mic’ on channel 1 and the side mic’ on channel 2. The gain settings are typically identical and this also typically looks like the side channel is lower level.
I don’t think you’ll be able to monitor in stereo with that recorder as you’re listening to an un-decoded M/S recording.
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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Arpangel » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:59 am

MOF wrote:
I’ve got the MKH30/40 combo too, it does seem a shame not to use them in this role, I think I’m going to have to persevere with M&S until I get it right, I think my Tascam DR100 does support it.
You put the mid mic’ on channel 1 and the side mic’ on channel 2. The gain settings are typically identical and this also typically looks like the side channel is lower level.
I don’t think you’ll be able to monitor in stereo with that recorder as you’re listening to an un-decoded M/S recording.

I get M&S completely, on a mixer, I have a mixer with built in M&S decoding, but it’s not portable. Maybe someone can tell me how it works on the DR100? Do I just select M&S and it automatically records a stereo file? It’s not clear in the manual, all a bit confusing.
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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby MOF » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:58 pm

I get M&S completely, on a mixer, I have a mixer with built in M&S decoding, but it’s not portable. Maybe someone can tell me how it works on the DR100? Do I just select M&S and it automatically records a stereo file? It’s not clear in the manual, all a bit confusing.
I've already answered this, you can't monitor in stereo on the recorder on the headphones, you will hear M on channel 1 and S on channel 2. without spending a lot more money on a recorder/mixer that has the M/S decoder built in you will have to put up with this limitation.
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Re: Low cost field recording rig?

Postby Arpangel » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:19 am

MOF wrote:
I get M&S completely, on a mixer, I have a mixer with built in M&S decoding, but it’s not portable. Maybe someone can tell me how it works on the DR100? Do I just select M&S and it automatically records a stereo file? It’s not clear in the manual, all a bit confusing.
I've already answered this, you can't monitor in stereo on the recorder on the headphones, you will hear M on channel 1 and S on channel 2. without spending a lot more money on a recorder/mixer that has the M/S decoder built in you will have to put up with this limitation.

Oh dear, I’m sticking to cardioids.
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