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Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

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Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby BlueGuy » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:28 pm

Hi all!

I am really bad at music theory and in an attempt to increase my skills I tried to make sense of the chord progression of Lauren Dagile's "You say" that Mike wrote about in August 2019's Mix Review.

He wrote that the progression is "I-iii-vi-VI", which in F would give F-Am-Dm-C if I am correct? But the last chord in "You say" is a Bb, hence the last chord should be a IV?

Did Mike make a typo or have I still a lot to learn? :tongue:

The Mix Review is amazing, keep it up! It makes me a better - and more eloquent - mixer! :D
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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:55 pm

I-iii-vi-VI would be F-Am-Dm-D and, as you spotted the correct chord sequence is F-Am-Dm-Bb so I-iii-vi-IV. In the article the sequence is shown as I-iii-vi-V though :D so I'd assume it is a simple typo.
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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby BlueGuy » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:53 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:I-iii-vi-VI would be F-Am-Dm-D and, as you spotted the correct chord sequence is F-Am-Dm-Bb so I-iii-vi-IV. In the article the sequence is shown as I-iii-vi-V though :D so I'd assume it is a simple typo.

Haha, thanks, yes of course a VI in F would be D! Seems Mike doesn't have monopoly on typos. ;)

Anyway, thanks for confirming! :D
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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:46 pm

:thumbup:
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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby Mike Senior » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:41 pm

Hi BlueGuy,

Thanks for the kind words about The Mix Review, and I'm delighted that it's helping you improve your skills!

BlueGuy wrote:Did Mike make a typo or have I still a lot to learn?

A typo, I'm afraid -- well spotted! Funnily enough, my normal favourite typo is to write "I-V-vi-IV" as "I-V-iv-IV", but fortunately the vigilant editors at SOS have so far caught several instances of that one before going to print... On this occasion, though, it seems that I've managed to slip a different typo past them! :)

So, to confirm what Sam Spoons has already very succinctly stated, the phrase "has been substituted with a minor mediant chord to give I-iii-vi-V" should read "has been substituted with a minor mediant chord to give I-iii-vi-IV". In other words, I'm talking about a chord progression of F-Am-Dm-Bb in the song's key of F major.

Hope that makes sense!

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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby BlueGuy » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:44 pm

Mike Senior wrote:Hi BlueGuy,
Thanks for the kind words about The Mix Review, and I'm delighted that it's helping you improve your skills!

:D I don't say this to flatter, but I'm constantly impressed by your sense for details and your musical/technical skills, which makes the column very interesting to read. And I'm not even producing pop, but techno. :)

Mike Senior wrote:A typo, I'm afraid -- well spotted! Funnily enough, my normal favourite typo is to write "I-V-vi-IV" as "I-V-iv-IV", but fortunately the vigilant editors at SOS have so far caught several instances of that one before going to print... On this occasion, though, it seems that I've managed to slip a different typo past them! :)

Maybe you were just testing the editors to keep them vigilant? :mrgreen:

Mike Senior wrote:So, to confirm what Sam Spoons has already very succinctly stated, the phrase "has been substituted with a minor mediant chord to give I-iii-vi-V" should read "has been substituted with a minor mediant chord to give I-iii-vi-IV". In other words, I'm talking about a chord progression of F-Am-Dm-Bb in the song's key of F major.

Hope that makes sense!

Mike S.

Thanks for confirming! Normally I wouldn't post about typos, but as I felt so insecure about my music theory skills I had to post and check.

Oh, and one thing I've long thought about - are you an avid book reader by any chance? The extensive vocabulary you make use of in the column makes me believe you might be. :)
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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby stavrakas » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:34 pm

Thanks for clearing this one up Mike.
OAT would you or anyone else be able to shed some light on how her vocals sound so incredibly wide and rich on this production? Are there any specific mixing/recording techniques one can use to achieve similar results?

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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby Mike Senior » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:20 am

BlueGuy wrote:
Mike Senior wrote:Oh, and one thing I've long thought about - are you an avid book reader by any chance? The extensive vocabulary you make use of in the column makes me believe you might be. :)

Hah! Not something anyone's accused me of before, but thanks! To be honest, I don't really get as much opportunity to read fiction as I'd like, so it probably has more to do with the rather more humdrum process of my trying not to repeat the same adjectives the whole time while writing that column... :roll: I should also add that my raw copy is usually a lot more long-winded than it appears in print, because the SOS editing team do a great job of tightening it up every month!
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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby Mike Senior » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:32 am

stavrakas wrote:Thanks for clearing this one up Mike.
OAT would you or anyone else be able to shed some light on how her vocals sound so incredibly wide and rich on this production? Are there any specific mixing/recording techniques one can use to achieve similar results?

There's a lot you can do to try to achieve this kind of vocal sound. The main things in terms of the tone are that you need to leave enough space for the low mids, so you can keep the vocal warm without having a muddy mix overall; and you need to add density to the high frequencies without massively over-enhancing the sibilance. And beyond that, I'd say to keep your effects fairly dull-sounding and pre-delayed to keep the dry sound upfront even while the effects are adding warmth and width. I talked about a bunch of these tactics in this Mix Rescue recently, in fact, and I'm just finishing up another Mix Rescue project at the moment with similar vocal requirements, so keep an eye out for that in due course.

Oh, and one more thing: automation. I'd expect to be automating the vocal fader in detail throughout, and there'd probably be some EQ and effects automation too, unless that was taken care of with multing instead. Honestly, I'd say it's the automation that most often separates the sheep from the goats where vocal mixing is concerned.

As for recording, my main concern would be to choose a mic and mic position that doesn't emphasise the sibilance, otherwise trying to get the necessary HF density without painful consonants can be murder.

Hope some of that helps!
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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:05 pm

Mike Senior wrote:I should also add that my raw copy is usually a lot more long-winded than it appears in print, because the SOS editing team do a great job of tightening it up every month!

But since they pay by the word they might (but surely not) have an ulterior motive? ;)

It's good stuff either way. Thanks.

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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:24 pm

Mike Senior wrote:So, to confirm what Sam Spoons has already very succinctly stated, the phrase "has been substituted with a minor mediant chord to give I-iii-vi-V" should read "has been substituted with a minor mediant chord to give I-iii-vi-IV". In other words, I'm talking about a chord progression of F-Am-Dm-Bb in the song's key of F major.

I have updated the online article with this correction.

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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby BlueGuy » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:21 pm

Mike Senior wrote:Hah! Not something anyone's accused me of before, but thanks! To be honest, I don't really get as much opportunity to read fiction as I'd like, so it probably has more to do with the rather more humdrum process of my trying not to repeat the same adjectives the whole time while writing that column... :roll: I should also add that my raw copy is usually a lot more long-winded than it appears in print, because the SOS editing team do a great job of tightening it up every month!

I think a lot of producers don't read much so it's good that you keep it fresh, linguistically! :D

And as Mark Twain (probably didn't) say: 'I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.'

@Hugh - great that you fixed the online article! :D
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Re: Lauren Daigle chords in Mix review Aug 2019 - typo?

Postby stavrakas » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:54 am

Mike Senior wrote:
stavrakas wrote:Thanks for clearing this one up Mike.
OAT would you or anyone else be able to shed some light on how her vocals sound so incredibly wide and rich on this production? Are there any specific mixing/recording techniques one can use to achieve similar results?

There's a lot you can do to try to achieve this kind of vocal sound. The main things in terms of the tone are that you need to leave enough space for the low mids, so you can keep the vocal warm without having a muddy mix overall; and you need to add density to the high frequencies without massively over-enhancing the sibilance. And beyond that, I'd say to keep your effects fairly dull-sounding and pre-delayed to keep the dry sound upfront even while the effects are adding warmth and width. I talked about a bunch of these tactics in this Mix Rescue recently, in fact, and I'm just finishing up another Mix Rescue project at the moment with similar vocal requirements, so keep an eye out for that in due course.

Oh, and one more thing: automation. I'd expect to be automating the vocal fader in detail throughout, and there'd probably be some EQ and effects automation too, unless that was taken care of with multing instead. Honestly, I'd say it's the automation that most often separates the sheep from the goats where vocal mixing is concerned.

As for recording, my main concern would be to choose a mic and mic position that doesn't emphasise the sibilance, otherwise trying to get the necessary HF density without painful consonants can be murder.

Hope some of that helps!

Many thanks Mike as always for your detailed reply and helpful tips. Interesting how you don't seem to feel the need to resort to vocal doubling techiniques in order to get that richer and larger than life sound. I shall certainly look forward to your future mix rescue articles as I always do.

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