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Bose S-1 battery issues

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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:53 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Maybe my expectations are too high but, as Bose have acknowledged that there is a fault, I don't think so in this case.

No, I don't think your expectations are too high at all. It shouldn't discharge as quickly as it does, and it is definitely a design or manufacturing fault.

My only point is that I don't think the practical consequences are significant for the majority of its owners/users in normal applications and usage. Clearly, your requirements are unusual and more demanding than most.

WRT your Nagra, the battery drain while in storage is, I assume, the known consequence of the design choices made rather than a fault?

Yes, quite. Like so many modern devices, it is running some processes in the background all the time, so some degree of battery drain over time is inevitably.

Anyway, I'll switch the S1 on for a minute or so tonight, 2 days after charging it, and fully expect it to be registering 100%. Will keep you posted.

:thumbup:

BTW Hugh, did you have the opportunity to check if your S1 actually has the issue.

Yes, it's been stored in my man-cave for a month or so, and when I flicked it on to check yesterday it was flat.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:15 pm

:thumbup:

Hugh Robjohns wrote:My only point is that I don't think the practical consequences are significant for the majority of its owners/users in normal applications and usage. Clearly, your requirements are unusual and more demanding than most.

Agreed, and I could probably manage but, once I discovered the issue my OCD kicks in and nags me constantly "the S1 doesn't work properly....." :blush:

As you know I have taken pains to point out at every opportunity that 'the issue' does not affect the S1 in 'normal' usage. I would not like to put potential purchasers of what is, in almost every way, an excellent bit of kit.

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
BTW Hugh, did you have the opportunity to check if your S1 actually has the issue.

Yes, it's been stored in my man-cave for a month or so, and when I flicked it on to check yesterday it was flat.

You haven't fallen foul of the 30 day 'sleep' mode have you? The battery shuts itself down after 30 days and needs the S1 plugging into the mains for a few seconds/minutes to 'wake it up'?
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:27 pm

Possibly. Not sure how long it's been in there to be honest... we had a lot of other stuff going on here before Xmas. I'll try and check it out more thoroughly when I get a chance.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby James Perrett » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:30 pm

As I think I mentioned before, keeping a lithium rechargeable battery fully charged continuously can be a dangerous way to store it. I don't have a link to the paper immediately to hand but there is strong evidence that battery fires are more likely to occur close to full charge and very rarely happen at less than 70% charge. The Boeing Dreamliner battery fires were probably caused by this issue as they were trying to use a lithium battery in the same way that you would normally use a lead acid battery by keeping the battery charge continually topped up. Rather stupidly (in my opinion) Boeing still use the same charging regime but the batteries are now housed in a more fireproof box since the fires.

Raw lithium rechargeable cells come about 30-40% charged from the manufacturer and they will keep this charge for years (at least 6 in my personal experience).

It might be safer to charge your S-1 battery up to 50 or 60% and then monitor the discharge rather than charge them fully.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:38 pm

I'll look into that James*, Most of the time 50% charge would easily get me through a gig.

The 30 sleep mode is also described as shipping mode and is, apparently, to reduce the risk of batteries draining completely while shipping, in the warehouse or in other storage.

Hugh, if you plug your S1 in for a few seconds and then switch it on it should wake up the battery if it has any charge remaining and then you could unplug it and check the batteries remaining charge level (not use if the app shows charge level when the S1 is plugged in).

* was this the issue that was causing iPhones to get dangerously hot and occasionally catching fire a couple of years ago?
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby James Perrett » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:56 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:* was this the issue that was causing iPhones to get dangerously hot and occasionally catching fire a couple of years ago?

Are you thinking about the Samsung phones rather than iPhones? I think they stopped making them shortly after the fires happened. I'm afraid that I was no longer involved in lithium battery packs at that stage so I've not looked into the causes. I tried digging out the paper where I saw the stats on cell faults related to charge state but I can't find it at the moment.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:01 pm

Don't know about Samsung but iPhoned did have a phase of getting worryingly hot and also there was an expanding battery problem* with one of mine blowing the display off and snapping the PCB in half.

* happened to my Apple watch too which was replaced under warrantee
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Kwackman » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:04 am

Sam Spoons wrote:Don't know about Samsung but iPhoned did have a phase of getting worryingly hot and also there was an expanding battery problem* with one of mine blowing the display off and snapping the PCB in half.

* happened to my Apple watch too which was replaced under warrantee

Samsung had fire risk problems 3 years ago.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38714461

The only iPhone related fire issue I can remember was with 3rd party chargers, not iPhones.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:17 pm

Update.

My S1 has been home for 5 days and, after charging it on Tuesday I unplugged the mains lead and left it switched off at around 9 p.m. When I checked it on Thursday evening it still registering 100% (as I expected), this afternoon though it is showing only 90% :headbang:

Basically it is worse than the they took it in for 'repair' as it was still registering 100% after 14 days before they 'fixed' it.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Rob Kirkwood » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:55 am

Sam that's really disappointing. :thumbdown:

I had couple of weeks where I didn't need my S1 Pro, so decided I'd test mine properly - and maybe even go back to using my VoiceSolo FX150 for a while, so I could thoroughly test my S1 Pro beyond 2 weeks.

After 10 days of no use I still got 4 flashes, so decided to load up the app for a better reading - unfortunately that insisted my S1 needed new firmware & wouldn't let me do anything before I'd loaded it (on mains power!) - duh.

So I'm still none the wiser about my own S1 Pro, but certainly don't want to send it away "just in case" and have it come back worse :headbang:

Maybe the draining problem has something to do with the battery sleep mode - do we know if a removed battery goes to sleep of it's own accord, or is it something the S1 forces the battery to do?

Kinda thinking we just need a mod (not the SOS variety) with a great big switch on the side of the S1 that isolates the battery!

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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:39 am

There are a couple of other people on the Bose forum who's S1s have come back not fixed, I'm waiting for a call from Bose tech about mine.

Sleep mode is built into the battery itself, it's to keep them from, eventually, fully discharging in storage or transit. A battery removed from the S1 will keep it's charge as it should, it's only when installed and idle that the drain takes place.

When mine came back from 'repair' the battery was completely dead, not sleep mode I don't think as it wasn't away for 30 days so that rang alarm bells straight away.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby James Perrett » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:15 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Sleep mode is built into the battery itself, it's to keep them from, eventually, fully discharging in storage or transit.

There should be protection built into the battery but they don't normally use a timer for this sort of protection. A normal lithium rechargeable battery will include a battery management chip which prevents the battery from discharging if the cell voltage falls below 2.8V and will prevent it from charging any further if the cell voltage reaches 4.2V. In a multi-cell battery there may also be some cell balancing circuitry as without it, one cell could end up fully charged while the other cells would still only be part charged.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:27 pm

Thanks James, I was aware of that which is why I queried the 'sleep mode' on the Bose forum. Above was the gist of the answers given. It still seems unnecessary to me though. That and the ongoing 'issue' suggest they got that part of the design wrong and have been trying to fudge it.

I'm still not convinced by the "less than 10% have the issue" claim either. When I've had a chat with Bose service (when and if they do get around to calling me) I'll make a decision on whether to keep the S1 or not. I'm now wondering if anybody else is planning to produce a similar speaker (The JBL effort doesn't sound great so I have more or less discounted it).
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:24 am

Latest update.

My S1 arrived back from Belgium yesterday after their second attempt to 'fix' it. I have fully charged it but it will be at least a couple of weeks before I can say if they have returned it to it's 'pre-fix' state or better so I'll keep you posted.

A small number of other S1 owners have experienced the same failure to make an effective repair on the part of Bose service and have expressed themselves fairly 'robustly' on the Bose user forum (as, TBF, have I). Bose are playing the cards very close to their chest and I do have a degree of sympathy for the mods but avoiding answering perfectly reasonably questions WRT future reliability of the S1 system is not helpful.
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Re: Bose S-1 battery issues

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:26 am

Disappointing indeed. Thanks for the update, Sam.
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