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Preamp into a Preamp

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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:17 pm

Yes of course, there are such stories, but I think you should familiarise yourself with his work and what he says about his work, before jumping to that conclusion. Like I said, he is well aware of how loud his mixes are, and he is deliberate in his exploitation of the dynamic range/ bit depth, and uses clipping judiciously. IIRC he has a background as a programmer?

I think this forum is sometimes in danger of a conservative consensus on such things....
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:23 pm

Tomás Mulcahy wrote:I think you should familiarise yourself with his work and what he says about his work, before jumping to that conclusion.

Link?

The difficulty with things like this is that while a certain action or working practice might be a perfectly acceptable solution in a specific situation, you can only really make that call if you understand all the ramifications and compromises, and the relevant contexts in which it is appropriate.

The argument for working with sensible headroom throughout the tracking/mix process is both technically and practically a very sound one (excuse the pun), and is essentially, 'best practice'. That's why it is so strongly advocated here, and I don't think anyone needs to apologise for promoting best practice.

Having to pull the master fader back to remove output clipping because the mix has run out of headroom is, by definition, a workaround.

While I'm sure it works in the context of Scheps' own work flow, it can't really be described as ideal, let alone 'best practice' and so, for people without Scheps' experience, it could easily lead to more diffculties and confusions.
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby The Elf » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:35 pm

Tomás Mulcahy wrote:I think this forum is sometimes in danger of a conservative consensus on such things....
I arrived at my own way of doing things, I assure you!

And I made all the dumb mistakes along the way...

As a wise man once said - it doesn't make you a better carpenter because you can hammer nails in with your fist. Why do things the hard way when there's an easy one?
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby MOF » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:04 pm

I've also heard some pretty horrifying stories about certain well known producers in the 80's from someone I know who was an engineer at the time. Sometimes the results are more down to luck (or support from others) than technical skill.

I have heard stories of the Producer’s fader that doesn’t do anything but acts as a placebo and keeps them happy. :lol:
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:20 pm

MOF wrote:
I've also heard some pretty horrifying stories about certain well known producers in the 80's from someone I know who was an engineer at the time. Sometimes the results are more down to luck (or support from others) than technical skill.

I have heard stories of the Producer’s fader that doesn’t do anything but acts as a placebo and keeps them happy. :lol:

You mean the one labeled "DFA"?
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby The Elf » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:30 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:
MOF wrote:
I've also heard some pretty horrifying stories about certain well known producers in the 80's from someone I know who was an engineer at the time. Sometimes the results are more down to luck (or support from others) than technical skill.

I have heard stories of the Producer’s fader that doesn’t do anything but acts as a placebo and keeps them happy. :lol:

You mean the one labeled "DFA"?
One guy I was working with didn't even know the analogue mixer he was sitting in front of wasn't even powered up! He moved that 'snare' fader until he had it just perfect! :lolno:
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby lordmike » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:50 pm

The Elf wrote:One guy I was working with didn't even know the analogue mixer he was sitting in front of wasn't even powered up! He moved that 'snare' fader until he had it just perfect!

I run sound live sound regularly and I love it when singers ask for "more me in the monitor" before I've even asked for a check. I'll often twist the pull out lights on my Furman and ask if that is better. More often than not it is.
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:03 pm

The Elf wrote:I arrived at my own way of doing things, I assure you!
As we all should. In which case, I respectfully suggest it is perhaps a little one wise to assume others have "lost control" of a mix, due to something we agree is technically correct anyway. Glad we can discuss a difference of opinion :thumbup:

Hugh you asked for a link, as I said, the interviews I am referring to are on Mixing with the Masters, that's advertised there on the RHS of this forum :)

As for a discography, LMGTFY ;)
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/15yBD ... qTCfVcX_KQ

https://www.discogs.com/artist/450831-Andrew-Scheps

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/andrew- ... 0000035504
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:41 pm

Tomás Mulcahy wrote:Hugh you asked for a link, as I said, the interviews I am referring to are on Mixing with the Masters, that's advertised there on the RHS of this forum :)

Yes, I realise that... But there are a lot of videos and other materials in there relating to Sheps, and I haven't the time to wade through it all right now, hence asking for a direct link to the section you've been referring to.

H
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby The Elf » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:54 pm

Tomás Mulcahy wrote:
The Elf wrote:I arrived at my own way of doing things, I assure you!
As we all should. In which case, I respectfully suggest it is perhaps a little one wise to assume others have "lost control" of a mix...
Then allow me to caveat that...

Assuming a sensible recording level for every track in the mix... and assuming that you preserve the peak levels throughout the DAW's signal chain... If you have to move the master fader you've lost control of the mix.

A bit wordy now, but I stand by this. Only by moving faders over unity can this happen - which means that faders have crept over unity = not in control of the mix.
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:16 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Yes, I realise that... But there are a lot of videos and other materials in there relating to Sheps, and I haven't the time to wade through it all right now, hence asking for a direct link to the section you've been referring to.

H

OK, sorry I misunderstood. Here you go:
https://mixwiththemasters.com/video/gai ... e-protools
https://mixwiththemasters.com/video/tra ... ing-part-1
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:04 pm

Tomás Mulcahy wrote:OK, sorry I misunderstood. Here you go:

Cheers. I'll check those out later.
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Re: Preamp into a Preamp

Postby MOF » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:36 pm

I have heard stories of the Producer’s fader that doesn’t do anything but acts as a placebo and keeps them happy. :lol:

You mean the one labeled "DFA"?

Yes that’s the one. :lol: A similar expression I came across was a direction to the crew to ‘film this with a strawberry filter’ which meant don’t film/record this but pretend to.
That was when film and, to a lesser extent, tape was expensive and not re-playable on location. It was to be politic to the interviewee who suggested other things/people you might like to record.
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