You are here

Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

For performing musicians and engineers: stagecraft, engineering and gear.

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby djangodeadman » Thu May 07, 2020 8:42 pm

george_vel wrote:
Imagine if we have to wait for a vaccine development like the one for HIV - it doesn’t exist yet, for almost 40 years...

Stay safe!

True enough, but in most circumstances you couldn’t easily spread HIV at a gig and we learned fairly early on how to avoid transmitting the virus once you knew you had it, or how to take precautions to avoid becoming infected. We now also have very effective treatments that keep those infected alive. A very effective treatment for this virus would probably be a viable alternative to a vaccine, of course.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m as keen as you for a solution that allows for gigs. For one, I care greatly about live music. For two, I’d like to go back to work and start earning money again.

You stay safe too.
djangodeadman
Regular
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Brighton

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby djangodeadman » Thu May 07, 2020 8:45 pm

george_vel wrote:
blinddrew wrote:Simple foam mic-covers like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/164172316151?c ... G0QAvD_BwE that you could wash (or bin) would help as well.

Thanks, blinddrew, this is an excellent idea! :-)

It is. You will still need to clean the grilles after use, remember.
djangodeadman
Regular
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Brighton

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu May 07, 2020 9:54 pm

If you have to buy 25 mics you could consider asking every member of the choir to buy their own, this would have the added advantage of minimising the risk of cross contamination. But I would insist that everybody uses identical mics. I know some mics sound better on some voices but the advantages of them being identical in this context will make balancing and eq-ing them a lot quicker/easier. I would also suggest something like the AKG D5 being a good alternative, it's cheaper than the SM58 at £50 but not so cheap as to have poor quality control. It is, however, a supercardioid which is better at avoiding feedback but less forgiving of dodgy mic technique. Thomann also list the Audix F50 at around the same price, it is a cardioid which makes it a little more forgiving. Both should get the job done and be consistent and a safe buy.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13932
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby djangodeadman » Thu May 07, 2020 11:22 pm

I suspect that an awful lot of singers will want to be using their own mics in future.
djangodeadman
Regular
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Brighton

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby george_vel » Fri May 08, 2020 5:23 am

Sam Spoons wrote:If you have to buy 25 mics you could consider asking every member of the choir to buy their own, this would have the added advantage of minimising the risk of cross contamination...

Brilliant suggestion, Sam!
Thanks!

What mixer and speakers + monitors you’d suggest in such case? Budget is approx. € 2k.
george_vel
Regular
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:03 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri May 08, 2020 11:06 am

For a choir I'd consider a couple of Bose L1 model II's but they will be around double your budget. Plusses are very wide coverage with much less level drop off from front to back of the auditorium compared to point source boxes and excellent feedback rejection so can be placed behind the performers (meaning you don't need monitors).

To stay in budget a couple of Yamaha DZR 10's would probably give you the best 'bang for buck' ratio but you would most likely need to add a monitor or two (though that in itself could be potentially problematical given the spread out nature of the choir).

https://www.thomann.de/gb/bose_l1_model_ii_b1.htm

https://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_dzr10.htm
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13932
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby ronmac » Fri May 08, 2020 1:49 pm

The OP’s budget is nowhere near enough to provide PA coverage for a properly distanced, outdoor crowd of 500.
ronmac
Regular
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Turn the knobs 'til the music moves ya.

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby george_vel » Fri May 08, 2020 3:46 pm

ronmac wrote:The OP’s budget is nowhere near enough to provide PA coverage for a properly distanced, outdoor crowd of 500.

Given the required distance and the space I have in mind (with hard surface building behind the choir) the crowd would not be more than 100.

Sam Spoons wrote:For a choir I'd consider a couple of Bose L1 model II's but they will be around double your budget...

What do you think about a pair of JBL Eon-615?
george_vel
Regular
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:03 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri May 08, 2020 4:42 pm

Not for vocals, they are what I'd describe as DJ speakers. You don't need low bass for a choir and 10"s always sound much better for vocals than 15"s (the crossover between the LF and HF units falls right in the middle of the vocal range and 15"s are usually compromised up there). This Yamaha DZRs are, on paper, the best on class for the money, 137 dB SPL out of a speaker that size usually costs £2k+ and, while I haven't hears the DZRs I do have DXR 10 (and auditioned DSR 12s) and they do sound very good. My thing is not heavy rock, more acoustic and blues and the DXRs work well for those styles.

If you can afford it the Bose L1 series produce the best vocal sound I've heard out of a 'portable' PA system. They reckon they are loud enough for 500 punters too. My feeling is they wouldn't work for loud electric music but for your needs I'd take them over a conventional rig. Definitely worth an audition, or maybe hire a pair in for the gig then buy if you like them?
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13932
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby george_vel » Sat May 09, 2020 7:29 am

Sam, thanks a lot for your inputs!
Yes, at this point hiring for such gig sounds much clever option.
george_vel
Regular
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:03 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat May 09, 2020 1:01 pm

You're welcome.

I've just had a email from my sailing club WRT the eventual relaxing of lockdown restrictions and, provisionally, how it will be handled. It may not happen for a while yet but receiving it makes it feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel which is definitely good for morale.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13932
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby george_vel » Sat May 09, 2020 2:17 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:You're welcome.

I've just had a email from my sailing club WRT the eventual relaxing of lockdown restrictions and, provisionally, how it will be handled. It may not happen for a while yet but receiving it makes it feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel which is definitely good for morale.

Wish you health and soon to be able to perform! :-)
george_vel
Regular
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:03 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat May 09, 2020 2:55 pm

Thanks and right back at you :D
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13932
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby tanooki audio » Sun May 31, 2020 9:58 am

If the locale is not too windy, id avoid micing every singer, unless you have a desk that can handle that many inputs and subgroups and hopefully VCA/DCAs...are they going to be mixed or seated SATB? The thing about choirs is its the blend that gives them that sound, close micing will automatically rob you of that so you will be micro mixing, a dugan might help, and adding artifical reverb to make them sound distant. Where are the speakers going to be placed in relation to the choir, id recommend condensor mics spread evenly apart, i usually use subcardiod patterned capsules for choirs Or hyper cardiod depending on many dactors...usually im mixing a choir standing just upstage of a symphonic french horn section squeezed between the percussion section on stage right and the brass on stage left and usually i aim for a height of 8’ give or take. If im doing two or more rows of mics, its 8’ from the height of the riser they are placed on and the mics get a down angle applied to them, usually my downstage row is a flatter angle than my upstage row....for a choir of 40-50 its 2 rows of 3 or 4 mics per row evenly spaced, based on the seating chart. If you can get them in SATB, itll make your life so much easier but if they rehearsed with a mixed set up, dont change it, most important thing is that they are comfortable come show time
tanooki audio
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 8:23 am

Re: Open space performance during Covid-19 - choir mics and setup advice needed

Postby OTE2020 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:22 pm

Why not just throw out a few 404's above head height with popshields - Done :) Quick & easy
OTE2020
Poster
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:52 pm

Previous