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Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby LifeRacer » Thu May 21, 2020 6:44 pm

So... Everything here so far is 100% useless to someone using an audio interface on PC. I was hoping that someone here actually had an answer for Windows 10, because it's much more restrictive than Mac, and no one has seemed to crack it yet.

On PC, Zoom does not create its own devices. Instead, it uses the MME ins and outs. For me (and most people using an audio interface on PC), I HAVE to set my DAW output to my interface on ASIO, otherwise the latency is crippling and my CPU consumption goes through the roof. It's just a glitchy, garbled mess.

When it comes to things like Voicemeeter and Voicemeeter Banana, there is no option to connect an existing output as an input, meaning I have to connect to the Voicemeeter input, which does not have the same capabilities as my interface's ASIO output.

My question is this: Is there any way on PC to connect an existing output to an existing input, so I can route it through Voicemeeter to the correct MME output for Zoom to see it?
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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby ConcertinaChap » Thu May 21, 2020 8:08 pm

> Everything here so far is 100% useless to someone using an audio interface on PC.

My sympathy if that is correct. It strikes me as odd that Zoom would have come up with a solution that only worked on Macs, though. My main O/S is MacOS but I do, as it happens, have a Surface Pro 4 so I'll have a play tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby notuno » Fri May 22, 2020 12:33 pm

Another Mac post, sorry: I tried the two methods suggested by kingy75 (using the trial version of Looback) and ConcertinaChap (with Zoom only, thanks for posting it!).

I did a Zoom meeting and joined with my phone to test the result: with both methods indeed I could hear both the computer sound (I tried both Audacity and Youtube) AND an external mic (in my case the Zoom H4N pro connected via USB).

However with both methods I found two problems that make them unsuitable (unless there is a way to fix them) for streaming with a live instrument + backing track:

1. the mic signal lags behind the computer audio, but up to 1 s. This is especially bad with the Zoom-only method, in fact Zoom even speeds up the computer audio, seemingly after a mic signal, as if to catch up. I tried also with the computer internal mic instead of the H4N, and it's even more lagging.

2. I couldn't figure out a way to monitor just the computer audio and not the mic signal.

Anyone knows how to fix this?
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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby Rich Hanson » Fri May 22, 2020 12:47 pm

This is equipment specific for me but it works:

I have a Presonus AR16 USB mixer, which has a USB channel for each input. I have found that if the ASIO driver is set to the same sample rate as the standard WIndows sound system then both will work simultaneously.

I feed the DAW to output 3/4, which comes out on one of the stereo input channels, and send that to a pre-fade send along with whatever mic I'm using. The output of that send I feed back to a spare channel which is the one I select in Zoom for the input.

This is mono-only, but I don't think Zoom works in stereo anyway (I might be wrong there).
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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri May 22, 2020 1:16 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:> Everything here so far is 100% useless to someone using an audio interface on PC.

My sympathy if that is correct. It strikes me as odd that Zoom would have come up with a solution that only worked on Macs, though. My main O/S is MacOS but I do, as it happens, have a Surface Pro 4 so I'll have a play tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

Well I've done that now on the Surface running under Windows 10 and my experience was exactly the same as when I did it on the Mac, except I didn't need to install the Zoom audio device. However I'm no expert on ASIO so maybe someone else can help here.

@notuno, TBH I'm not surprised. Latency is always a problem in these scenarios. It sounds like Rich may have a useful approach though.

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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri May 22, 2020 1:34 pm

I'd have thought the simplest way to keep computer audio and live audio in sync would be to mix them into a single stream outside the device hosting the meeting. Taken to the extreme, play the backing track off whatever device you have available (iPod, spare phone WHY) with a wired connection into the mixer or audio interface. That way any latency will be the same for the track and the vocal.
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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby notuno » Sat May 23, 2020 12:38 pm

Rich Hanson wrote:This is equipment specific for me but it works:

I have a Presonus AR16 USB mixer, which has a USB channel for each input. I have found that if the ASIO driver is set to the same sample rate as the standard WIndows sound system then both will work simultaneously.

I feed the DAW to output 3/4, which comes out on one of the stereo input channels, and send that to a pre-fade send along with whatever mic I'm using. The output of that send I feed back to a spare channel which is the one I select in Zoom for the input.

This is mono-only, but I don't think Zoom works in stereo anyway (I might be wrong there).



Thanks. Zoom (the application) can be used in stereo mode on computers, but not on phones. I'm in fact streaming the stereo signal of the intenal mics of the Zoom H4N pro, that I use as an audio interface for the Mac. My DAW is Audacity on the same Mac. If I understand you correctly (I'm an audio noob), are you suggesting to play the backing track on the Mac and send the Mac headphone output to an audio interface? But this is a stereo signal... and I think with the H4N I would need some attenuator (is that what a pre-fade is?). The problem with this is that I don't think the H4N pro allows to output via USB the signals from its internal mics and from the external XLR inputs together, but I may be wrong. Maybe I could send the headphone out of the H4N and the headphone out of the Mac both to the Scarlett i2?

Edit: I've always been using a sample rate of 44.1 kHz on the H4N, which is the same as that of the Mac, but the lag is still there.
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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby notuno » Sat May 23, 2020 1:14 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:I'd have thought the simplest way to keep computer audio and live audio in sync would be to mix them into a single stream outside the device hosting the meeting. Taken to the extreme, play the backing track off whatever device you have available (iPod, spare phone WHY) with a wired connection into the mixer or audio interface. That way any latency will be the same for the track and the vocal.

Can I do that with the gear I have? (Zoom H4N pro, that I need to use for the mics, Scarlett i2, and various devices to reproduce audio, including a home system with line outputs). What else would I need?
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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat May 23, 2020 1:43 pm

I'm not familiar with the H4N but it appears to have 4 inputs, if you could us it as an audio interface and play the backing tracks into it from another device (spare phone or WHY) you would at least have the track and the vocal in sync with each other but I don't know if the H4N offers 'direct monitoring' which you would need to listen to your track while singing. You can't get rid of the 'lag' or 'latency from a computer based system as it is inherent in any digital audio system and unavoidable, on a well set up system it is possible to get it down to a few milliseconds which may be acceptable. FWIW I can't sing wearing IEMs if there is more than 6ms latency, less than that is ok and only just noticeable.

As I said I don't know the H4N so I cannot say with any certainty whether this would work.

WRT using both the H4N and 2i2 should be unnecessary and might be contributing to the problem.
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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby notuno » Mon May 25, 2020 4:47 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:I'm not familiar with the H4N but it appears to have 4 inputs, if you could us it as an audio interface and play the backing tracks into it from another device (spare phone or WHY) you would at least have the track and the vocal in sync with each other but I don't know if the H4N offers 'direct monitoring' which you would need to listen to your track while singing. You can't get rid of the 'lag' or 'latency from a computer based system as it is inherent in any digital audio system and unavoidable, on a well set up system it is possible to get it down to a few milliseconds which may be acceptable. FWIW I can't sing wearing IEMs if there is more than 6ms latency, less than that is ok and only just noticeable.

As I said I don't know the H4N so I cannot say with any certainty whether this would work.

WRT using both the H4N and 2i2 should be unnecessary and might be contributing to the problem.

I'll give it a try with the H4N. It has two inputs, and two internal mics in stereo. There is a four channel recording mode that allows to record the internal mics and external inputs simultaneously in two WAV files on the SD card, but I'm not sure one can send via USB the combined signal from the internal mics and the external inputs.
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Re: Sharing DAW audio into Zoom meetings (Windows 10)

Postby forumuser838146 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:15 pm

Same here - I do not see the zoomaudiointerface anywhere, so the DAW will only see the usual Edirol Interface output channels.

Zoom can only monitor inputs to the Edirol, not outputs - it's fine if all I need is to hear mics plugged in - or a desk with instruments, fx or whatever.

It works ok, - BUT - I want to use on-board fx from the DAW

The problem is that Zoom can't see the total mix coming off the DAW, only the Edirol and the system inputs. (I assume that is why Zoom has the audio device - but as someone else said - it doesn't work on a PC if you are running in ASIO. Supposedly it appears if you use MME, but this is crap on my Edirol)

I resorted to a ridiculous hack which is to take the headphone output from the Edirol Interface box and plug it into the computer's audio input, then I set that to be Zoom's input - it doesn't seem to need Zoom "Share Audio" or "Share Computer sound"** - the DAW mix simply replaces the 'mic'. I monitor the whole business via headphones plugged in to the computer's headphone jack

** difficult to tell sometimes because of the plethora of connections in the hideous mess between the PC's audio devices, Realtek software with the computer's soundcard, the DAW and Zoom
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