You are here

NEW - Neve console - announced today

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby MOF » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:10 pm

I think the A&H is better built, with one board per channel, I don’t think the Soundcraft is.

The one board per channel is a 'traditional' way of building, but not necessarily 'better'. It necessitates a lot of connectors that single motherboard designs don't have and it requires a more complex and thus more expensive mechanical design...

There's something to be said for permanently soldered connections, I remember that when there were faults on individual channels of our Neve desks the first thing you did was take it out of its slot and then drop its back in repeatedly to clear the oxide/dirt as a first line of fault finding, if that didn't work then it went off for repair and a replacement module was put in in its place, whereas my Soundcraft home studio (non-modular) desk never had a channel fault in all the years I had it. Obviously for a professional role the Soundcraft mixer wouldn't have been an option.
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1231
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby James Perrett » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:19 pm

I've never owned a desk that wasn't one board per channel and I don't think I've ever had issues due to the modular construction. Mind you, none of them have been a Neve.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9767
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby ajay_m » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:34 pm

The reverence for these high end desks somewhat baffles me. Yes many years ago the preamps in these were state of the art. Since then high precision high slew rate low distortion ultra low noise opamps have become widely and cheaply available. I have a kmi kmix whose preamps are about as quiet as I could ever imagine and which has precise eq as well as useful stuff like noise gates and a compressor per channel. In the 1970s this little mixer would have seemed like science fiction. As an approximation to the proverbial "wire with gain" I would be hard pressed to fault it. Now I get that transformers introduce distortion that some people find musically attractive but these desks used transformers at the time as the "least worst" solution to signal coupling challenges. Now we can if we want do high precision DC to 100khz preamps with commodity chips that would for sure have been used in these desks had they been available. So to me this seems like a weird fetishizing of the past.
ajay_m
Poster
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby MOF » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:34 pm

The reverence for these high end desks somewhat baffles me. Yes many years ago the preamps in these were state of the art. Since then high precision high slew rate low distortion ultra low noise opamps have become widely and cheaply available....... Now I get that transformers introduce distortion that some people find musically attractive but these desks used transformers at the time as the "least worst" solution to signal coupling challenges.

I think you're right, to a certain extent, technically there are more straight wire alternatives, but it is all about the sound that that topology gives you, especially when driven hard. You could argue that we should be buying the ISA (focusrite) systems which were commissioned by AIR Studios from Rupert Neve for their greater fidelity than previous Neve hardware. However there are many Neve consoles still in existence and there must be something to them to sustain that reverence. If it really was the Emperor's new clothes I think by now, fifty odd years later, someone would have shown the Neve consoles to be of their time and not worth maintaining, restoring etc and SSL would have completely taken over in the eighties and nineties.
I have got the ISA Two and the Brainworx Focusrite console software but I don't own any Neve 1073 hard or software to compare.
I like what I hear and I'm happy, but I do sometimes mix and match with UAD vintage (technically worse? valve) compressor plugins and by-pass the Focusrite compressor, and other times I use the UAD Neve 88RS or SSL 4000 console plugins and I'm tempted by the Helios Type 69, which is very characterful.
It's the same with analogue tape for some people, yes I've got plugin emulations and use them once in a while, technically they can't hold a candle to high end digital but some studios will track drums, in particular, through a real tape machine and then move over to digital for the remainder, Spitfire Audio track all their samples through tape first. I don't own any of their libraries so I can't comment on them but it's something they've always used as part of their USP.
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1231
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Arpangel » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:14 am

I won’t be buying a Neve, it’s too big, it doesn’t have the facilities I need, and the sound? at my age I’m sure I would stand there and say..."yeah, it sounds OK" I'm positive I wouldn't go into meltdown and have an aural orgasm.
But I am seriously considering an A&H Mix Wiz, I had a Soundcraft desk here a few months back, I was a big Soundcraft fan, and I’m sure I was just unlucky, but within two weeks it developed two dead channels, I’m attracted to the A&H because of it’s modular construction.

PS just checked out the RCF E16 :shocked:
"6" aux sends!
Very comprehensive EQ, looks very well built.
My Yamaha MG20 is fine, but this would be good for our live room.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5273
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:27 am

Arpangel wrote:PS just checked out the RCF E16 :shocked:
"6" aux sends!
Very comprehensive EQ, looks very well built.

I'd be amazed if it was 'well-built' for that money... and the specs say the preamp EIN is just -120dBu A-wtd which is appallingly noisy! Definitely a case of try before you buy.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 28549
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby ef37a » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:48 am

Just like to point out that with the exception of the very venerable 741 all the common audio op amps have more than good enough slew rates and can deliver full drive at 20kHz (not that anyone ever needs that for music!)

I would also like to enjoy my music without The Daily Service breaking in at 192kHz.

"The wider you open the window the more the ***t flies in" (G.A.Briggs?) Audio seem to me to be the only branch of engineering which designs for signals way out of the bandwidth of the signals being processed?

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12103
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Arpangel » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:37 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:PS just checked out the RCF E16 :shocked:
"6" aux sends!
Very comprehensive EQ, looks very well built.

I'd be amazed if it was 'well-built' for that money... and the specs say the preamp EIN is just -120dBu A-wtd which is appallingly noisy! Definitely a case of try before you buy.

Yes, it’s half the price of the competition, looks a bit tacky too, the A&H has a lot of sends, I’m already running out of inputs on my Yamaha. This is ridiculous, I really do need a big desk, but just don’t have the space. I think I’m going to have to make better use of the space in the basement, and have a completely separate mix and synth area.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5273
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:42 pm

:silent: digital desk..... :think:
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 28549
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Arpangel » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:16 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote::silent: digital desk..... :think:

I think we’ve been here before Hugh, I know in my heart of hearts it would be a big mistake.I’d like to stand in front of a digital desk, and just try and use it for a bit, I don’t know any of my friends that have bought one, and they don’t seem musician friendly for live mixing etc, not a good idea basically.
The analogy would be going from an analogue synth to a DX7.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5273
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:37 am

The trouble is, Tony, you haven't assessed what you really need now and going forward, you don't really know what you want but there are lots of unrealistic, unnecessary and unachievable fantasies floating around in your head, you don't have any experience of the alternative technologies and solutions, and so you have prejudiced, fixed and outdated negative views against these other possibilities.

All of which make you a very frustrating and difficult person to help!

...but we'll continue to do our best... :wtf: :lol:
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 28549
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:07 am

I went from analogue to digital desks a few years ago. Would I go back? Maybe now I'm pretty much retired from live work but probably not. WRT which desk, a Behringer X32 Producer is rack mountable, has 17 faders and all the fx you could wish for. But I would urge you to find a little more space and go for the X32 Compact*, if for no other reason than it's LCD scribble strips. I use my Compact as a hands on mixing desk, pretty much the same way as I used to use an analogue desk (my last was a 24 channel A&H GL2200, lovely desk), the learning curve is not as steep as you might imagine and the features available were a revelation after many years using analogue.

The only downside of the X32/M32 ranges is the lack of TRS sockets on the main inputs. The mic pre's are supposed to be happy accepting instrument and line level signals but I still prefer to use DI boxes on my keyboards and guitar fx.

* If space really is at a premium the Midas M32R is rackable and has scribble strips with the added bonus of the Midas (as opposed to 'Midas designed') mic preamps and better motorised faders.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13541
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Trevor Johnson » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:53 am

exception of the very venerable 741 all the common audio op amps have more than good enough slew rates and can deliver full drive at 20kHz

The LM301 was borderline as fitted in the original Quad 405, but the TL071 was a good replacement. And other op amps, e.g. OPA627 but with adequate, additional , bypassing, etc..
Trevor Johnson
Regular
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:00 am

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby ef37a » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:02 pm

Trevor Johnson wrote:
exception of the very venerable 741 all the common audio op amps have more than good enough slew rates and can deliver full drive at 20kHz

The LM301 was borderline as fitted in the original Quad 405, but the TL071 was a good replacement. And other op amps, e.g. OPA627 but with adequate, additional , bypassing, etc..

Was it? A quick Goog finds a datasheet giving 10V/uS and I am pretty sure that is faster than the NE5532 and where would mixer makers have been without those for the last 25 years or so!

The 301 does look a bit load sensitive tho'but.

But anyway. Hobby Horse Trev, do not like supersonic audio amplifiers, caused me too much grief in the field years ago.

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12103
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: NEW - Neve console - announced today

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:04 pm

The problem with the LM301 in the Quad amp was not slew rate or gain bandwidth, but self- noise...
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 28549
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

PreviousNext