You are here

Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

For anything relating to music-making on Windows computers, with lots of FAQs. Moderated by Martin Walker.

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby The Elf » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:06 pm

Voicemeeter is an option I've used from time to time, but it adds too much latency - I never got past that to check for drift.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14847
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby Gadg3ts » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:40 pm

CS70 wrote:
Gadg3ts wrote:Given that the asio4all thing is pretty old, I'm very surprised no-one has mentioned the Voicemeter products

I would suspect they suffer from similar issues - introducing latency and devices will likely drift after a while. It's straightforward to set buffer size and sample rate on multiple devices but it's the lack of a common clock reference at driver specification level that gives problems.

ASIO was invented exactly to bypass the Windows Mixer - all that functionality need to be computed somewhere in the processing line from inputs to outputs, and that adds latency. Asio4All offers no such facilities trying to provide the most straightforward wrapping (only I/O).

But by all means it costs nothing to try :)

I've been using the Voicemeter products for 2-3 years now and have not noticed any extra drift or latency (individually all my devices can run at 32 samples). At least when all the devices have their own ASIO drivers selected.
With what I would say is better performance than the MacOS aggregate audio device, so it does solve the original question. :)
Gadg3ts
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:00 am
A/V, Tech and Studio Services: gongbong.media
Custom Volca Cases: pimpyourvolca.com

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby CS70 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:16 pm

Sounds great! Maybe there is a solution after all!

Which interfaces?
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6021
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video and the FB page

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby Gadg3ts » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:03 pm

CS70 wrote:Sounds great! Maybe there is a solution after all!

Which interfaces?

What I have connected are:
SSL MADI-AX (also provides external master wordclock)
Roland TR-8
Boss SY-300

I couldn't tell you what it does 'internally', but it does make my life a lot easier!
Having the TR-8 channels come into Cubase and have the output to the SSL without unplugging is great :)
Full spec's are here
https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/potato.htm

The other issue it solved was back with Ableton Live 8(?), when I first got the SSL interface and Live wouldn't start because it didn't like seeing 64 in/out channels, so using the 'Banana' gave it something with 8/8 that it accepted.
Gadg3ts
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:00 am
A/V, Tech and Studio Services: gongbong.media
Custom Volca Cases: pimpyourvolca.com

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby merlyn » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:01 pm

I found this thread interesting. I use Linux and it's possible to use multiple devices, but it's less than ideal.

The basic principle is that only one sample clock can be used at a time. Drift is a non-starter. This problem has been solved in pro-audio with wordclock -- all synced devices use the same sample clock. In the case of multiple internal devices there is an internal connector between cards. The problem is then how do we use multiple interfaces that don't have a sync input?

The solution is to re-sample. This is how Potato appears to work according to the manual :

Potato manual wrote:To make Voicemeeter working, you need at least to select the main output device used for BUS A1. We recommend to select your best audio device here because it will be considered as the master Audio Point giving the master sample rate and buffer size.

As you probably know, not all sample rate convertors are created equal, as can be seen here. The differences in quality come from the anti-aliasing filter, so using the same sample rate on all devices minimises filter issues. Although technically still re-sampling, re-sampling to the same sample rate is conceptually more like interpolation.

Re-sampling does introduce latency. It seems on Potato the latency is low enough to not be noticeable.

According to the specs Potato allows five physical inputs that are limited to mono or stereo and ASIO drivers are only available on BUS A1. Can @Gadg3ts confirm that?

If that is the case it means you can't take e.g. two Behringer 404s and get eight inputs.

Aggregate sound devices and Potato are a practical solution to combining items of sound hardware that don't have a sync input. But if you want e.g. eight inputs the best solution would be an eight input soundcard.
merlyn
Regular
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:15 am

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby IncusMusic » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:39 pm

Hi All,

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm currently trying to get Asio4All to work correctly (will check out VoiceMeeter shortly) - but I've got a specific issue that I'm hoping someone can help me with:

-Recently built a new PC, and run two audio interfaces (RME MADI card for 32 St. Outputs, UAD Apollo for Inputs [Mic/Line/HZ 1-8]). For History's sake, I used to be on Mac and linked them both with the "Aggregate Device" setup - they worked flawlessly together.

-Currently can switch Cubase to find the RME Card, UAD Apollo, and ASIO4All, so no problems there. All is being recognized by Cubase and ASIO.

-Under ASIO4All control panel however, The UAD Apollo is only recogized as the following:
-"In: 2x 44.1-192KHz, 32 Bits". In Cubase this is shown as only 2 Inputs, reading "UAD2 Wave 1, UAD2 Wave 2"
-This is incorrect, and should have a laundry list of inputs available: Mic/Line/HZ 1, 2, Line 4-8, ADAT 1-8, etc.

Does anyone have any info as to why the Apollo is recognized incorrectly under ASIO4All as only 2 Inputs instead of ~16 give or take?
IncusMusic
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:16 pm

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby James Perrett » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:33 am

IncusMusic wrote:Does anyone have any info as to why the Apollo is recognized incorrectly under ASIO4All as only 2 Inputs instead of ~16 give or take?

Possibly because UAD only expose 2 inputs with their WDM driver? Do you have any software that can use the WDM drivers (like Reaper) to check whether this is the case?
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9632
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby IncusMusic » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:58 pm

James Perrett wrote:
IncusMusic wrote:Does anyone have any info as to why the Apollo is recognized incorrectly under ASIO4All as only 2 Inputs instead of ~16 give or take?

Possibly because UAD only expose 2 inputs with their WDM driver? Do you have any software that can use the WDM drivers (like Reaper) to check whether this is the case?

Hey James - unfortunately this is my first PC build in a WHILE. Been on Mac for about 10 years. I'm not sure how to check whether or not there are more inputs listed.

Not sure if this is what you're referring to, but for what it's worth: in Cubase, when I switch the driver to find the UAD Apollo via Thunderbolt, all Inputs and Outputs show up correctly.

Thanks!
IncusMusic
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:16 pm

Re: Aggregate audio device on Windows 10 64 bit?

Postby James Perrett » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:58 pm

IncusMusic wrote:Not sure if this is what you're referring to, but for what it's worth: in Cubase, when I switch the driver to find the UAD Apollo via Thunderbolt, all Inputs and Outputs show up correctly.

Can you change the driver type that Cubase uses or is it limited to ASIO? If you can change it to WDM (sometimes called Wave Out or MME) then see if the UAD appears and how many channels Cubase allows you to use.

If you can't change the driver type in Cubase then I'd suggest downloading a copy of Reaper, installing it and then going to the audio hardware setup page. At the top of the page choose Wave Out, then select the UAD in the dropdown interface list and then set the number of channels to the number that you would expect to appear. Click OK and then see if all the inputs and outputs actually work.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9632
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Previous