You are here

Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

For anything relating to music-making on Windows computers, with lots of FAQs. Moderated by Martin Walker.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Martin Walker » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:45 pm

Yes, a channel insert to ASIO IN 3/4 HOST will send that channel's signal to inputs 3/4 in Cubase (as long as you have these inputs enabled in Cubase's Connections dialog window. You will hear the DSP FX on that strip if they are inserted before (i.e. higher up the strip) the send, but not if after (lower). This means you can record signals with DSP FX (before) or (for example) lpay a guitar with distortion and effects but record it dry so you can fiddle about with the FX settings later on.

Multirecord simply depends on having multiple inputs simultaneously enabled within Cubase, and the appropriate tracks armed for record. AFAIK there's lots in the Cubase manual on this subject.


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 17662
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!) MIDI Problem

Postby Martin Walker » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:52 pm

fizzazz - if you've installed several interfaces in the past, it's possible you've run into the 10-entry Device Driver Limit, which I discussed in 'Removing Unwanted Device Drivers' in PC Musician March 2005:

www.soundonsound.com/SOS/mar05/articles/pcmusician.htm

See if that rings any bells.


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 17662
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Wossname » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:42 pm

I read your informative article on the emu mixer, and then I finally understood why I had to play with sends to get sound in & out as I wanted.
I've no use for the internal effects on the 0404, so it turned out to be quite easy :-)

Perhaps you should document it somewhere? There MUST be more users than me that just wants to get sound in & out of their DAW, sod the effects.
I'd do it but while my english is ok for normal use, it ain't up to explaning techincal stuff I hardly understand myself :-)
Wossname
Regular
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Verdal, Norway

* wossname * ...if .sig's were fish, this would stink *


Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Stuart Churchill » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:56 pm

Martin,
Thanks again for your help (and patience!). I think Patchmix may be beginning to make sense, now. I'll experiment again tomorrow and let you know how I get on.
As far as multirecord is concerned, I have all the VST inputs enabled (I/O L&R, S/PDIF and ADAT 1&2), but Cubase only allows me to record on 2 inputs simultaneously when I click in the R column. I can activate more inputs in the mixer by clicking "in", but the same thing gets recorded on all selected tracks. Cheers.
Stuart.
User avatar
Stuart Churchill
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:00 am
Birthday Song 4 U. Personalised Birthday Songs

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:56 am

wossname? - surely my article does document how to set up PatchMix DSP sends? ;)


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 17662
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Stuart Churchill » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:51 pm

Martin,
I really thought I was beginning to understand the Patchmix routing, but after a very frustrating session (recording, that is!) this afternoon I'm still as confused as ever. ASIO in/out, left/right, wave L/R, PCI card in/out, S/PDIF I/O, ADAT 1/2, 3/4. It's just like a bloody big jigsaw puzzle and I can't see where the pieces fit. I don't know where to go from here.
Multirecord still won't work, no matter what I do.
Stuart.
:?
User avatar
Stuart Churchill
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:00 am
Birthday Song 4 U. Personalised Birthday Songs

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby KitC » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:48 pm

Stuart,

You're biting off more than you can chew with your present Patchmix. Try a very simple patchmix configuration at first; 1 wave output, 1 asio output, and 1 asio input (the left analog input)at first. Next, just put in a wave send in the wave output and 1 asio send (Host ASIO IN 1/2) in the asio input. Save this as your 'basic' session.

Now, fire up Cubase and look at Devices > Device Setup > VST Inputs (I'm using SL2, look for something similar if you're using SX3) and see how the sends appear in Cubase. Since you're using asio, only the asio send will appear, named as 1 PCI Card In L and 2 PCI Card In L. Go to VST Connections and the inputs should have a stereo bus with the aforementioned pci card inputs. The wave send isn't present because it only appears in WDM-enabled applications such as Audition 1.5 and older versions of Sound Forge.

Next, add another input strip (the right analog input)in your basic patchmix. Go back to Cubase and check your VST Inputs. Press "Reset" - still don't see any changes, right? That's because you didn't add a send to the new strip. Go back to Patchmix and add an asio send to Input 2 (Patchmix will usually add the next available send). Go back to Cubase and press "Reset". The new inputs will now show up as 3 and 4. As an experiment, you can insert send Asio 31/32 yet Cubase will still number the inputs sequentially. Remember that the sends are ALWAYS in stereo even if the input strip you're using is mono; adjusting the pan on the Pmix channel strip will have no effect except if the send is located 'downstream' of the channel strip - and that is usually in the aux section and main insert.

I don't know why you are using the ADAT inputs because as I recall, you don't have any ADAT equipment, only spdif.
KitC
New here
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Stan » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:53 pm

To further shorten KitC's very good advice.

Try these steps
1 Open a new patchmix preset with all the input strips present.
2 Now open Cubase and check the asio/audio inputs in the' VST inputs' list.
3 Back to Patchmix - right click and add sends to the various strips.
4 Back to Cubase - check the asio/audio input list - the patchmix sends are now listed. Activate them.
5 Enable the tracks audio inputs - for the tracks you intend to record..
6 Activate multirecord in Cubase - and select the tracks for recording.
User avatar
Stan
Regular
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:41 am

All good advice - simplify, simplify...

My default PatchMix DSP setup has just three channel strips: Wave 1/2 (for Wavelab playback), ASIO 1/2 (for Cubase SX playback), and Dock In 1L/1R (for Cubase SX analogue recording). All three have Peak Meters in the top insert slot, while only the Dock In channel has a Send below its meter, to ASIO In 1/2 - Host.


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 17662
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Stuart Churchill » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:32 pm

OK guys. Thanks again for the help. I think it's time I did a reality check on what I expect from Patchmix. Maybe I've got my wires crossed and it can't do what I think it can do.
The link I posted earlier in the thread is now my default session and it works fine if I just want to record in Cubase. One reason I bought the soundcard was because the FX in Patchmix uses no CPU power. I've tried using them as a VST send, but I get all sorts of crackles and pops which sounds like a bowl of Rice Crispies! So I gave up on that idea. This is what I understand to expect from Patchmix. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

If I record, for example 4 parts in Cubase - Drums, guitar, bass and 1 vocal, that I could have a separate Patchmix mixer strip for each, and that I can use a different Patchmix FX for each instrument as a send (not a VST send FX), and, after recording, be adjustable within the Patchmix mixer.
I seldom use insert FX, preferring to be able to fine tune later.

I don't know why you are using the ADAT inputs because as I recall, you don't have any ADAT equipment, only spdif.
I have a Fostex DMT8 that has ADAT I/O.

Activate multirecord in Cubase - and select the tracks for recording.
I can't get multirecord to work, it only allows me to record 2 track at a time. I have all the VST inputs activated, BTW. Maybe this has something to do with my Patchmix settings. I'm hoping so, because I want to record using 4 mics.

I hope this explains just what I'm trying to achieve. It would help enormously if someone could add a link as I did showing a screenshot of exactly what I need to do, I know that's asking a bit much, but I'm now pulling out what's left of my thinning hair in frustration, not to mention the embarrassment of sounding so stupid with every thread I post. Thanks again for listening to my problems.

Stuart.

PS. Here's the link again.
User avatar
Stuart Churchill
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:00 am
Birthday Song 4 U. Personalised Birthday Songs

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby KitC » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:12 pm

Ideally, you would want your Pmix to look something like this:

Image
KitC
New here
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Stuart Churchill » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:01 pm

KitC,
Thanks for that. You said earlier to put in a wave send in the wave output and 1 asio send (Host ASIO IN 1/2) in the asio input. What's the difference between a wave send and an ASIO send? In your screenshot where is the wave 1/2 send going? I assume strips 4 - 7 sends go to ASIO in 3/4, 5/6, 7/8 and 9/10 host. Thanks again for going to so much trouble.
Stuart.
User avatar
Stuart Churchill
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:00 am
Birthday Song 4 U. Personalised Birthday Songs

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby Stan » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:42 pm

On the Cubase multirecord issue - Just in case
When you activate Multirecord in Cubase another button strip appears alongside the track name. Click to select the tracks for multirecord.
User avatar
Stan
Regular
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby KitC » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:26 pm

stuart churchill wrote:KitC,
Thanks for that. You said earlier to put in a wave send in the wave output and 1 asio send (Host ASIO IN 1/2) in the asio input. What's the difference between a wave send and an ASIO send?


Stuart,

The wave send allows host applications using WDM drivers to record audio from wherever the wave send is inserted. For example, you're using the included Wavelab Lite which is a WDM only application. If you are listening to streaming audio, you will see a signal in the Pmix wave strip. By inserting the wave send into that strip, you can now record that audio into wavelab. By inserting that wave send into ANY channel strip, aux insert, or main insert, you will be able to record audio into wavelab or any other host application that uses WDM drivers. You can even insert a wave send into an asio strip and record the audio signal in that strip into wavelab.

By the same token, the asio sends work in the same manner, but they only work with asio-enabled applications such as Cubase, and other hosts that use asio drivers. If you have multiple input strips each assigned with an asio send, those sends will appear in any asio host as an input. That is one of the reasons why I encourage you to experiment with a simplified Patchmix session; it helps you get a feel for the signal flow.

Be aware that there is only ONE wave send. You can only record a stereo track with that send whereas you have up to 16 asio sends. You therefore achieve multitracking by using the asio sends.

stuart churchill wrote:In your screenshot where is the wave 1/2 send going? I assume strips 4 - 7 sends go to ASIO in 3/4, 5/6, 7/8 and 9/10 host. Thanks again for going to so much trouble.
Stuart.


In my screenshot, the wave send is in the wave strip simply because I want to capture streaming audio. Like I said earlier, I can put that send anywhere I want - into an input strip so I can record the line inputs into wavelab, for example. Or I can put the same wave send into an asio output to capture a standalone vst synth; again, like I said earlier, I can insert it anywhere if I want to record that particular audio signal. The same is true for the asio sends. You just have to understand that the wave send only services WDM applications while the asio sends only apply to asio applications.

Think of the sends as patch cords. They are numbered just to give a sense of order to them. You can actually use them in any order you want, but it just makes sense to use them numerically. Cubase will even disregard the asio send numbers, taking the name of the send from the name of the channel strip the send is assigned to.

I hope this makes things clearer for you now.
KitC
New here
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Help needed with Emu Patchmix (again!)

Postby The Dochter » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:43 pm

Here's a small bone to chew on

I use my 04/04 purely as a stereo in and stereo out device for cubase LE. Long and weary did I have problems with trying to get a stereo signal in through the maze of patchmix - every time I tried a configuration it semed to sum both channels together. I use a lot of rhodes type piano sounds and like to have them bouncing around before I record, so any disruption to the stereo image was immediately recognisable and sometimes quite awful.

My solution was to pan hard left 'PCI card in L' and hard right 'PCI card in R', set all the aux sends to '0', clear the aux effect board and in 'LE' pick up the signals through VST inputs 7and8.

This has worked fine for me so far (touch wood) and seems to bypass all the weird gizmo trickery that sometimes, whilst great to have should I ever need it, just seems to get in the way of making good music

Good chewin' and I hope this may be of help to other confuse d soles like mine!

The Dochter 8-)
The Dochter
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:00 am

PreviousNext