SOUND ON SOUND

[Sunshine82]

One of the problems in looking at artists who appear (at least, for the time being) to be getting away with it is that it doesn't help you if you get sued. It is no defence to point to someone else and say "well, he gets away with it".

Andy :beamup:

Understood. I agree. The question remains: are they merely getting away with it for now? Or have they developed a best practice around this process that allows them to retain both their legal standing along with their sanity?

[CS70]

Is it true that many copyright owners are likely to give away their work for cheap or free?

It is certainly true that asking does not cost anything. :)

For me personally, I once saw a picture online that I thought perfect as cover art, tracked and asked the photographer (explaining indie band, listen to track etc) and she was happy to let me use it at no cost. But really, everyone will reply what they see fit.

I'm still wondering how other artists make a living when incorporating samples into their work.

They do ask for clearance, or - if there's enough dosh involved and the management of the estate is of the awake sort - they get sued.

Keep in mind the whole asking permission is _much_ easier when your are somehow established in some form in the actual music business.. which means having a network. So you ask your friend, who asks his friend and so on and suddenly you have the email address or phone number of the artist or his manager or his lawyer or his publisher etc.
Even here in SOS land I'm sure that there are people who could - if you are enough of an acquaintance - put you in contact with artists and execs for asking permission.. SOS being an UK publication, and many of the forum members British, it's probably more likely with UK-based artists, but there's also a good number of US friends insofar I understand (and of course of many other lands).

It's much harder if you don't have any kind of starting point contact.

I've tried contacting such an artist for some guidance; but I never heard back from them.

Yeah well it is hard for the reasons above, and successful artists are often careful with thei privacy (not all, some are pretty approachable so long you survive the spam filter)... but if you want to discuss clearance issues with a recognized commercial artist, you would probably find who's their management and talk with them instead.

[The Red Bladder]

Here we go again -

... but if you want to discuss clearance issues with a recognized commercial artist, you would probably find who's their management and talk with them instead.

I am afraid that is not the case unless they are completely independent and have been able to keep all their own publishing.

Even if the signed artist is your own mother, you almost certainly cannot use her music in the form of samples.

Mummy will have signed a publishing agreement and it is the publisher who is (usually) the only entity that can assign any further rights to the use of her music and/or recordings in any way.

I say 'usually' because every contract is different, but distributors are nearly always also publishers or have standing arrangements with a roster of publishers and they want to be the only people who can publish - that's the whole point of being a publisher!

So how do people get to use samples? Easy - they use samples from other people/acts that are signed to the same publisher.

You want to use a James Brown sample, let's use "Get on up! Like a sex machine!"

That's easy - but only if you are signed to one of the HUNDREDS of labels and other outlets and companies owned by Vivendi. And even then, expect a few thousand (£10k or more) to get burnt up by all those nice lawyers working at Universal on Greys Inn Road, as they have to read all those contracts with the Brown estate - and they are on six-figure salaries. That's all money that has to come off your bottom line!

That is if you are signed to a Vivendi company. That way they are both sides of the ledger and can take the lawyer hours and the sample fees off your royalties. If you are not with EMI, Universal, Def Jam, Island, Motown, etc., etc., etc., well, they have other things to do than answer pointless requests.

[CS70]

Here we go again -

... but if you want to discuss clearance issues with a recognized commercial artist, you would probably find who's their management and talk with them instead.

I am afraid

No reason to get excited.

If you re-read slowly and carefully, you'll find that I never wrote that it's the artist management that gives permission. The point is that you have to have a discussion and therefore find out who to have a discussion with, which means chasing a chain of information. And chasing information is not easy at all - and made simpler by having contacts.

WTF is Vivendi, for example? Do you write to the reception desk? Good luck with that.

Then at the end of the chase, if you manage to end it, the result may well be that you can, you can't and you have to pay or you don't have to pay, and the source of that result will be whoever owns the rights - publisher, label or the grandmother of the band's singer for all that matters.

Besides, in most cases you have to ask clearance not from just the publisher but also the copyright owner of the recording which are often not the same entity (unless as you state is an indie band who owns everything).