You are here

Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby ken long » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:25 am

Everything on this thread is speculation until you can try a different batch/brand of tape. Do that first then report back.
User avatar
ken long
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3403
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Somers Town
I'm All Ears.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby Arpangel » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:25 am

bruceyripper wrote:So the picture above is the dirt that comes off.

As I said, it only requires 2 wipes and then it's clean again, BUT, this is happening after EACH play through, which I would presume is not normal.

I think the tension explanation seems to be on point so far. Although I have slacked the tension and now it doesn't happen after every single play back, but is still happening after 3 play backs.

I know cleaning is all part and parcel of reel to reel, but everything I've heard and read states cleaning is only required, beginning/end and every 2 hours or so in the session, NOT, after each play back or indeed after 2 or 3 playbacks, which I believe is not normal and means something is up. Right?
:think:

These look very clean to me, it depends on the tape condition, type, amount of use, FFW/RW how often you do those things, I’ve owned Tascams and only used to clean them once before a session, that was about it, but it’s a case of clean when you need to.
Is there any really bad degradation in quality because of this? If not, I wouldn’t worry about it. Drop-outs can be caused by all sorts of things, the heads look in good shape on your machine, the brand of tape might be an issue, how long it’s been on the shelf, does it suite your machine, have you lined-up your machine for this tape?
The joys of analogue....

:)
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby bruceyripper » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:49 pm

Good advise that.

I have just looked up the right tape for this machine which is the SM911.

My tape is not that, so I am ordering this new tape. Will try it out and get back.
User avatar
bruceyripper
Regular
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:00 am

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby bruceyripper » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:57 pm

Oh God...

Just checked the tape I'm using and it is this;
https://www.thomann.de/gb/rtm_sm911_1_2 ... ancake.htm

Which by my knowledge IS a SM911.

So I am using the right tape according to this.

The plot thickens.. :cry:
User avatar
bruceyripper
Regular
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:00 am

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:43 pm

The 'correct' tape will depend on what tape the machine was last lined up for which may be a different brand/spec of tape to the 'recommended' type (and may well be out of spec anyway unless it's been lined up recently). Either way it won't be that which is causing the oxide shedding issue but a mechanical problem, either something in the tape path or the condition of the tape itself.

Did we ascertain whether the oxide is depositing on the capstan or the fixed cylindrical guide next to the erase head?
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 15603
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Still taking this recording lark seriously (and trying to record my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby bruceyripper » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:49 pm

JUST the capstan.

No other residue on any of the other components.
User avatar
bruceyripper
Regular
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:00 am

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:00 pm

The suggestion to try a different brand of tape is because some tape formulations have, in the past, been more prone to shedding oxide than others, a different brand will most likely use a different formulation so, hopefully, should show whether the issue is with the tape or with the machine.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 15603
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Still taking this recording lark seriously (and trying to record my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby Arpangel » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:55 am

Sam Spoons wrote:The 'correct' tape will depend on what tape the machine was last lined up for which may be a different brand/spec of tape to the 'recommended' type (and may well be out of spec anyway unless it's been lined up recently). Either way it won't be that which is causing the oxide shedding issue but a mechanical problem, either something in the tape path or the condition of the tape itself.

Did we ascertain whether the oxide is depositing on the capstan or the fixed cylindrical guide next to the erase head?

Sam is right, depends on the line-up, if it’s ever been done, there isn’t really a "correct" tape for any machine, it’s what you prefer, I always preferred Scotch 226, as it had a flatter response to me, but it’s up to individual taste. Some brands do shed oxide more than others though.
ATR Magnetics are an alternative brand, you might try that, I didn’t realise, there isn’t much about these days, I haven’t owned a RTR for years. It’s amazing, the cost, £85 a reel for about 30 mins recording time!

:o
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby bruceyripper » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:44 am

I know but the recording quality has something special to it that I've never found with digital.
Plus I like working with my hands and body.

Little update, I tried an old tape I had which was the same make and this hasn't dirtied the capstan as much. Did about an hour mixing last last and cleaned at the end of the session with minimal dirt coming off, I'd say normal, hardly any.

Sooooo.....

Reckon it is just this particular tape then? Someone on here said about storage in the Wearhouse etc.

Should I contact the manufacture? I feel like now I know there must be something wrong with that new tape.
User avatar
bruceyripper
Regular
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:00 am

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby Tim Gillett » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:34 am

Sometimes tapes are manufactured slightly narrow or wide of the nominal 1/2" tolerance limits. The too wide the tape can foul on the tapes guides. Perhaps that is going on here.

If so you should see more tape muck closer to the edges (top and bottom) of the tape path. On your machine this should normally only happen at the entry and exit guides at each end of the headblock. Possibly also on the large guide which substitutes for the missing head but only if the guide now has a tape sized groove worn in it.
Tim Gillett
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2335
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:00 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby ken long » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:18 pm

Tim Gillett wrote:Sometimes tapes are manufactured slightly narrow or wide of the nominal 1/2" tolerance limits. The too wide the tape can foul on the tapes guides. Perhaps that is going on here.

Thought that too but that would come off as swarf. Doesn't look like swarf in his picture.
User avatar
ken long
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3403
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Somers Town
I'm All Ears.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby bruceyripper » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:03 pm

Hey ya'll

Solved it. Was the the tape, the guy who serviced it gave me a new tape and so far no problems at all, spent 4 hours recording, no problems.

Now.......

What should I say to the place i have bought these tapes from? I can't believe they have caused all this hassle, and they are expensive and advertised as new. Really bad craic that isn't it.
User avatar
bruceyripper
Regular
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:00 am

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby James Perrett » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:58 pm

Might be worth getting in touch with RTM themselves as they need to know if there are problems like this. While the RTM formulas were originally created by BASF, as I understand it, RTM are part of Pyral and Pyral tapes in the past haven't always been good. BASF tapes were generally consistent and have lasted well. I hope RTM are sticking to the BASF formula rather than trying to incorporate production techniques from the old Pyral days.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 10536
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby ken long » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:37 am

bruceyripper wrote:
Was the the tape

Bingo.

What should I say to the place i have bought these tapes from? I can't believe they have caused all this hassle, and they are expensive and advertised as new. Really bad craic that isn't it.

Just get a refund or get them to replace it with a different batch. The batch number might be on the leader (if there is one) or on the back of the tape. These things happen.
User avatar
ken long
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3403
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Somers Town
I'm All Ears.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

Postby blinddrew » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:33 am

Give the supplier a call, they may be genuinely grateful for the information if it helps prevent similar customer problems from the same batch.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14150
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

PreviousNext