You are here

Guitar shielding to stop hum

For all things relating to guitars, basses, amps, pedals & accessories.

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:22 am

I've already purchased the Kinmans now. After reading around quite a lot I just got the impression that they were great so I decided to just go with them. The SOS review said they were great pickups even if they weren't noiseless.

I haven't checked that the ground is connected to the bridge yet. It could well be something as simple as that. Sorry if this is a really simple question but how do you do that? Should there be a wire from the control to the bridge?

The kinmans arrived yesterday so I'm just trying to decide whether to install them myself along with doing some shielding or whether to go the whole way and just get a professional to do it all at the same time. I suppose with my very limited knowledge I should get a professional!
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby Spiked Lunch » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:41 pm

I'd have a go at doing it yourself...Take it to a pro if you go wrong/get lost or confused. Everyone has to learn somewhere.

Plus there are plenty of diagrams on the internet and plenty of help and advice from the good people on here.
User avatar
Spiked Lunch
Regular
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:41 pm

I think I will have a go this weekend. The actual shielding doesn't look that difficult now I've re-read it a few times.

I could do with an installing pickups guide for dummies though. I've searched the internet and I can't find one that really breaks it down with pictures - can anyone recommend one? Also, is it any different installing kinmans to installing other pickups?

Thanks again.
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:42 am

update! - I have now installed the kinmans and shielded the guitar. Thankfully, I had someone with me who knew what they were doing. This may sound a little dumb but the instructions that came with the Kinmans were a little difficult for me. They aren't really helped by them providing a capacitor and resister which to someone who hasn't dabbled in electronics before seem quite worrying! If I was doing them on my own I'd have needed a really good step by step guide for dummies. Anyway we got the installed.

The shielding was much easier and with the help of an ohm meter we got this done with no problem. I used the ohm meter to check the continuity between the jack and the rest of the guitar.

Firstly I plugged the guitar into my amp. I haven't had much time yet to check it properly but there seemed to be little to no noise. Touching the strings made no difference so I was pretty sure the guitar had been grounded. I say little noise as the amp itself hums a bit, the inputs haven't yet been adjusted properly and I need to get my guitar set up properly too. The guitar didn't make that much noise before but I'd say that somewhere between the shielding, the pickups and the grounding it was definitely quieter.

Next I moved onto my digital 8 track (zoom mrs802). Annoyingly the hum was still there. I touched my strings and the hum went, I touched any part of the electrics and it went. After all the shielding / grounding work I was pretty sure that the guitar wasn't the problem and it must be the zoom not grounding properly. I know that is going to be obvious to most people but when I first had this problem I tried a DI box with a ground loop remover and this did nothing. I also tried grounding from a screw under the zoom to a radiator as suggested in the manual and this did nothing.

Anyway, to solve this I now have a wire from the screw underneath the zoom to the earth / ground of a plug that is then plugged into the mains. None of the other pins of the plug are wired, just that one. I now have absolutely no hum - excellent!

I haven't had the chance to properly check the kinmans out for tone etc but from reading around (alot) they are meant to be one of the best sets around so it's good to know they are in the guitar. If anyone has as little knowledge as I do with guitar electrics I recommend following the shielding example as it really does teach you alot. If you still have the ground loop problem after shielding and grounding I'd say it's time to really think about what you are plugging it into!

wow that was quite an essay! hope it makes sense and someone finds this useful.
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby DoeZer » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:22 pm

i absolutely do find it useful and thank you...

im gonna get me the Kinmans but seeing as i already have a busy day job and no time in the world whatsoever or electrical knowledge I am buying the "No Soldering Harness" that comes with the kinmans... it completely replaces all of the electrics in your guitar and provides two or four extra switching options too!! you just pull out the existing scratch board + electrics and replace it. hoepfully will go ok. but very glad to hear yours went so well in terms of hum...

now!! quick question. your solution on the earthing of the zoom. Sounds ingenious!! Are you sure thats fully electrically safe there yes? I mean it sounds OK to me but im no expert. i'd double check with some folks round here and maybe firther afield too... It sounds like a problem I have. I have also tried running a wire from the suspect unit (a Yamaha 01v96 mixer) to a radiator but no luck...

now I might try this wire to a plug option too...

PLEASE do post about the Kinmans when you get to check them out. Im all ears!!! Which ones did you get? Standard? lues? Woodstock? Woodstock Plus?

D
DoeZer
Regular
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
www.slipslide.net

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:19 pm

Kinmans - I kinda wished I had gone for the harness to be honest, that way I know the electrics are what they should be. Thomann didn't do it though and I wanted the pickups ASAP. By the way Thommans was excellent and I'd use them again.

I gave my guitar to a professional today to get it set up properly so I'll post back with a review of the kinmans. I'm not a serious player though, but thought if I'm changing the pickups I might as well get some where the reviews are all good.

Grounding - Im no expert really and it was actually someone else who suggested it. He isnt an electrician but knows a fair bit and says it is safe. Also, I posted this on a Zoom list and one person (again no expert said it is safe).

Hopefully someone here can let us know for sure! Another way though could be to take the wire to the back of a computer case that should be earthed too. As for the recorder end, I have a crocodile clip on it so I can attach and detach easily.

Hopefully this is safe and it works for you. I've had the zoom for 2 years now and have never been happy with the electric guitar recording. 2 years!!
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:20 pm

oh yer, I forgot to mention that I got the broadcaster tele kinmans.
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby DoeZer » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:24 pm

good for you... sounds like youve finally nailed it. elec guitar tone is EVERYTHING!!! even simple chords can sound devastating if youre tone is right ;)

good luck with it.. we await your reviews!!
cheers
D
DoeZer
Regular
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
www.slipslide.net

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:42 pm

I've now got my guitar back after getting it set up properly. The guy who did it really enjoyed playing it after and said it had a great sound... Not sure if they always say that though!

I'm not what you might call a serious user and it is quite difficult to compare the tone of the new pups with the old ones having taken the old ones out! However, putting the guitar through the amp had a definite crunch that it didn't have before. A little bit of this could be down to being able to turn the volume up without having it humming back at me.

The strangest thing I found was that before I'd always use my BOSS blues driver pedal through the amp to get a nice crunch distortion but since changing the pickups I prefer the sound without.

I also noticed that there was more of a difference between high and low using the tone knob.

One negative point though is that the neck pickup has an extremely thin coating of metal on the cover. I think this is part of the "noiseless" design. Anyway, when I got it back from the shop I noticed that some of this had been scratched off. I'm not sure if it was like that before I put it into the shop but it shows you need to be careful with it.

As for direct recording into digital 8 track: now I have no hum I can finally start working on getting a good sound - it's great to be able to record single notes at high volume! The overall sound is a little cold and flat but that will be more to do with directly going into the recorder rather than anything to do with the kinmans. I'm going to look into ways to improve this next - I'll probably end up trying to mic the amp up.

I'm glad I've changed them, grounded and shielded the guitar. It's good to know that I've done all I can to remove unwanted noise, also I'm never going to get rid of the guitar so I might as well upgrade it the best I could!
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby Wonks » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:43 pm

Great to hear you are enjoying it.

What is underneath the silver? Is it metal or platic? it shouldn't be that easy to scratch off. I'd email Chris Kinman to get his opinion. He may even send you a new pickup (or a new cover if it's easy to replace).
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10887
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:21 am

It's plastic with an really thin coating of metal to give it the same appearance as genuine tele pickups.

I'm not all that bothered really but I suppose it's worth a shot!
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:07 pm

I emailed and he emailed back really quickly. The do sell the covers on their own - the even do a gold one! I can't remember the price but it wasn't too bad. I think I'll leave it for now though.
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby DoeZer » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:39 pm

thanks loungepenguin..

glad to hear your hum free at last.
thats a HUGE thing??!

although on the tone youre not yet totally enamoured? thin sound you say when recorded... if its youre recording chain then it would have been there with the old guitar setup too. was it?

all i can say is my brother in law had a strat with kinmans a while back. first time i tried it i wasnt overly impressed. then after a while i kept going back to borrow it for recordings, cos of a) hum and b) the tone was really getting to me... by the end i was totally hooked :lol: :lol:

hopefully youll be the same. ;)

g'luck

cheers
D
DoeZer
Regular
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
www.slipslide.net

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby loungepenguin » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:26 am

the problem before was that there was such a problem with the hum that I couldn't ever turn the guitar up enough to make an informed decision about the tone... not on the digital recorder anyway.

It's definitely the recorder that makes the tone a little thin as it sounds great through the amp. Having said that the recorder does have an eq and quite a few patches that I haven't fully explored. I also have a small tube mp pre-amp that I haven't tried since getting the guitar upgraded.
loungepenguin
Poster
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Guitar shielding to stop hum

Postby DoeZer » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:45 am

ok cool..

the thing imo that has had a HUGE effect on my guitar tone is a) a tube sound - i use either a vox tonelab DIed into the desk or sometimes a Velocette tube amp miced up and b) good compression before the desk... makes a HUGE difference. for me anyway. i use a tfpro p3 optical compressor (not expensive at all, but good IMO)... after the tonelab but it makes a world of difference to the attack, and even release, of the notes as you pluck or pull - that depends alot on playing style too though...

i guess the recording is your next step then.. if its sounding great thru the amp then its got to be the recording chain etc.
good luck ;)
D
DoeZer
Regular
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
www.slipslide.net

PreviousNext