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Music Production Degree's

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Music Production Degree's

Postby chew_rocket » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:39 pm

Although I still have another year left on my current course (media production course in my home town). I'v already started thinking about what Im going to do in 2011. Im going to move away and study music production/technology. I have had my eye on ACM in London which is obviously pretty amazing. However, I know I need a few more options incase I dont get accepted there (i hear its quiete prestigious!).

If anyone has studied at other universitys (or knowa people who have) and would like to recomend me towards/against checking it out, please post here.
Was the teaching good? Where the facilities good? Did you feel the course made you better than simple self teaching could? etc etc.

Thanks
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby The Red Bladder » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:51 pm

Having just skimmed through your laptop thread, may I suggest that you get a good grounding in the technology involved first, before wasting time on one of these courses.

And yes, teaching yourself is better - and cheaper!
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby chew_rocket » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:59 pm

I have 18 months of experience to prepare me for this.

Many thanks for this pointless post.
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby The Korff » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:03 pm

chew_rocket wrote:If anyone has studied at other universitys (or knowa people who have) and would like to recomend me towards/against checking it out, please post here.

Red Bladder's reply seemed quite reasonable to me, given the above! There's no need to be rude.

Cheers!

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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby chew_rocket » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:15 pm

My apologies for getting a little bit on my high horse
It seemed to me as though he was suggesting I wasnt ready for a university course due to my lack of knowledge in some areas of music technology. I thought university courses where in place for people to learn... what would be the point in attending if I already knew everything about music technology?

Do we actually have any past or present students who would like to talk about the university's they have studied at?
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby Aural Reject » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:02 pm

chew_rocket wrote:Do we actually have any past or present students who would like to talk about the university's they have studied at?

If you search the forum for opinions on HE courses and their value etc you'll find plenty.
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby Mixedup » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:31 pm

Hi Chew,

There are indeed plenty of threads about this. Crucially, it all depends exactly what you want to learn about and why. That's why many people will give you short shrift when you ask questions like this.

Music Production degrees probably aren't the best way to prep for a career in audio, though they do open plenty of opportunities if you go to the right place with teh right attitude and do plenty of extra-curricular stuff. Simply passing a degree isn't enough.

Depending what you want to do, you may be better off going for electronic engineering or music then something specifically in music production. The more projects I work on, the more I realise that the key skill in production is an understanding of and a feel for music and the ability to communicate...

FWIW, I did do a course (MA Audio Production) at the University of Westminster several years ago. I got a lot out of it. But much of that was down to meeting people and working on collaborations — and doing more practical work than the course required.

At the end of the day, a uni course is by its very nature going to place an emphasis on academic study – in a way that the world of commercial music just doesn't. The institutions that usually get name-checked on this forum (in the UK) are Tonmeister, LIPA, Salford, Westminster and a few others. The first two on that list are the only ones I'm aware of that really offer anything approaching a qualification that will mean anything to employers.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby chew_rocket » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:27 pm

Replys like that are exactly what i was looking for.

I understand production is all about the feel for it and using your ears, but I do feel that with expert knowledge from people who have worked in the trade will be of great help. I also enjoy academic study, so university will also be much fun for me too, which i guess is the main thing!

I checked out the ones you mentioned and indeed Tonmeister and LIPA seem like very good universitys, they also seem extremely difficult to enroll on. Only 30 places a year at LIPA! And grade 5 music theory requirment at Tonmeister may be a problem, but I guess I'v got 18 months to sort that one out.

Thanks for your input.
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby Studio Support Gnome » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:47 pm

universities may be places to learn.... but there is an expected base line level of competence and knowledge required to be able to make proper use of the course.... Red Bladder is opining that you currently do not meet that standard...

and he is almost certainly correct.


University is not like school or college, you are not spoon fed , they don't hold your hand every step, and if you fail year 1 badly... ,then usually no, you won;t be allowed to do year 2.... and so on.... and all years will count towards final grade... so be ready to swim for your life when you're dropped in the deep end...


and you are expected to work hard, and be self motivated....



so the inference is that you might want to be getting yourself better prepared before getting yourself into some serious debt for a course that has little or no career prospect to pay for itself afterward even if you do well....


there's a reason some courses are hard to get on to.... they don't want to waste their resources on people that will fail year 1.... things like music theory OUGHT to be a requirement for ALL such courses... the ability to read a score to follow cues and know when you need to do things is really very useful..... the requirement for maths and physics is also necessary... otherwise you have little or no chance of understanding the theory and practical applications of the technology required to do a job in the field...




for your illumination, Red Bladder is the sort of chap who might employ a graduate of one of the better courses.... not some snot nosed brat mouthing off randomly...
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby chew_rocket » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:13 pm

I understand how university works, how you get on the course etc, as I do currently study a degree course in media production. Part of this degree is music production and radio broadcasting, so I will be much more prepared when the time comes. Music production is also a huge part of my life. I spend every single minute of my free time learning and practicing music production and have recently started recording bands (and Im not talking a mic in the middle of the room by the way). I'v been playing in bands for 8 years, so understand songwritting and structure and can actually read music, I just dont have the Grades in it (yet!). To sum up this paragraph, I am not just some kid who thinks its gonna be cool to stick a mic in front of an instrument and gain a degree in it, this is about what I want to spend the rest of my life doing and will do whatever I can to be the absolute best.

However, This is absolutely not what this topic was about. I was simply asking about people experiences with past courses and what they got out of it. So can we get back on topic please?
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby Octopussy » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:51 pm

Hi chew_rocket - I see you've had some brutal and truthful replies. Not fun to listen to at all. Yikes.

There will be opportunites for a job in the media production sector whereas studying music production and technology will lead you to the unemployment office with a laughable qualifications and no opportunities. The studio business is dying in the arse, failing....run away! LOL

At the moment people who are specializing in intellectual property law are making millions and working a couple of days a week. I'm not kidding. If you train in this and work for a few years you can own a crazy world class studio and run it as a tax write off.

This world is run by lawyers and accountants. The fear of loosing money means that power is given up to these people.

Being a sound engineer is really badly paid and the training is badly done. All the skills are listening skills - read ear training! Some of the skills in hearing in the way a sound engineer should hear are more like a talent than a skill. It can take someone years and years of fiffing and faffing with sound equipment before their brain can really hear with skill frequency and texture and know what to do about it.

Seriously I would look at the media production course and explore differnt aspects that lead to different roles.

My wife did a Multimedia and Telecommunications degree. Now she's a computer programmer. So for advertising or building online stores - there's lots of work. Graphic design, video production etc. more opportuinities. Music production...oversubscribed and nobody is buying music anymore.

If you want production skills then go do some classes in Ableton or Reason at a DJ school. But don't waste your money on a music tech degree.

Best of luck with things,
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby forumuser775780 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:52 pm

Hey Chew Rocket.

I've recently completed a degree [B.A Hons Music Technology Specialist] at LCMM at Thames Valley University. I had a great time, its was bloody hard work, I learnt loads, made contacts and am now in business for myself [just]. If you've got the go-nads to do it and do it properly don't let the grumpy older ones tell you that you can't.

HOWEVER:

It is very important to listen to what they are saying. They are right. People in the industry could not give a toff about your degree. I know. I'm living proof. And they are right that too many people do these courses and expect a job at Abbey Road [if it still exists] when they're done.

Its just not realistic. EVERYONE I STUDIED WITH HAS LEFT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY [ALMOST IMMEDIATELY] AFTER FINISHING THEIR DEGREE.

The truth is its a hard industry where you have to work your nutts off and struggle to get by and also accept that it may never change. You may have to struggle like this for the rest of your life. Most can't handle that and go back to the trusty 9-5 life.

So if you love it get out there, get your degree and do it. But listen to the elders on here, they've never steered me wrong.
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby James Perrett » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:12 pm

chew_rocket wrote:...I just dont have the Grades in it (yet!).

Why do you want grades? They really won't help much. Keep on recording as much as you can. If you have a good ear and the right personality you will find work.

Good engineers are still in demand - albeit on a freelance basis - so get your name around rather than wasting time doing further courses in subjects that don't really look great on your CV.

If you really want to do further study then you should think about a proper engineering course relevant to recording like electronics or acoustics.

Cheers

James.
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby hollowsun » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:20 pm

chew_rocket wrote:Only 30 places a year at LIPA!
That's 28 more places there than there are studio employment possibilities out in the real world!! ;)

Every year, hundreds (if not thousands) of people come out of these courses cluching their qualification (and a letter from their bank telling them they're £20,000 overdrawn) and most of them will end up where the extent of their client relationship is "Do you want fries with that?"!

chew_rocket wrote:And grade 5 music theory requirment at Tonmeister may be a problem,

I thought you also needed Grade 7 or 8 in an instrument as well...



Ah! Right - 'A' levels in maths, physics and music and ideally Grade 7 or 8 performance level.

Good luck!
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Re: Music Production Degree's

Postby chew_rocket » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:34 pm

Thanks for these replies which are a bit more edging towards the initial point. I already fully understand that a a degree in music production doesnt garauntee me a job at the end of it and hard work and determination will always win hands down. I have friends who have degree's in music production and are now jobless, but the simple reason for this is that they just aren't really any good! On the other hand I have friends that do have a job from it (one in particular at a VERY good studio, but Im not going to name drop) because they worked hard both at university and out of it.

I do fully have my mind set on attending university to study a MUSIC PRODUCTION degree as these tend to cover a wide range from engineering to acoustics and technology to creative practices. My media production course covers a wide range of media aspects from web design through to music production, and although there may be more jobs in the media, this is not what I want to do. I want to take the music production aspect further. If this is a waste of 20 grand or whatever, I guess its back to the 9-5 paying back these silly loans for the rest of my life, but at least I tried to do what I wanted to do.

I'v had a look at all these recomendations and have discovered a few gems which I didnt know about, so keep them coming.

Cheers guys.


James Perrett wrote:
chew_rocket wrote:...I just dont have the Grades in it (yet!).

Why do you want grades?

A lot of universities require Grade 5 musical theory.
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