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MIDI 2.0!?

For fans of synths, pianos or keyboard instruments of any sort.

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby arkieboy » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:26 am

There's lots of good stuff in here from my brief reading of reports of the spec (note the caveats!) but it feels to me like the main point is to ensure that hardware doesn't just die in the face of AU/VST plugins. Bidirectional communication, interface profiles and the like will ensure your DAW can control and snapshot your entire rig from your keyboard and mouse. And its timely too - we're still in love with our hardware right now but give it five years without MIDI2.0 and I think we'd see hardware become niche.

Alternate controllers - like guitar - are well served by the update so naturally I'm looking forward to how it all pans out ...
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby Wonks » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:05 am

blinddrew wrote:I know, i'm older and wiser now...
Well, you got 50% right there. :D
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby blinddrew » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:42 am

Wonks wrote:
blinddrew wrote:I know, i'm older and wiser now...
Well, you got 50% right there. :D
Specific circumstances only. Limitations and restrictions apply. This statement is not a guarantee.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby N i g e l » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:06 pm

arkieboy wrote:Alternate controllers - like guitar - are well served by the update so naturally I'm looking forward to how it all pans out ...

one of the videos I watched was less than complimentary about the current MIDI over Bluetooth BLE, stating delays of >10ms, so I was wondering if they will bring out somthing better for the likes of keytars and jamstik type devices or even for phone interfacing ?
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby The Elf » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:52 pm

I'm looking forward to hardware/software that will declare the capabilities of old kit on its behalf to open it up to MIDI 2. Gotta be done!
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby arkieboy » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:04 am

N i g e l wrote:
arkieboy wrote:Alternate controllers - like guitar - are well served by the update so naturally I'm looking forward to how it all pans out ...

one of the videos I watched was less than complimentary about the current MIDI over Bluetooth BLE, stating delays of >10ms, so I was wondering if they will bring out somthing better for the likes of keytars and jamstik type devices or even for phone interfacing ?

(I was thinking more about the support for pitchbend and other controllers per note).

I'm not sure current bluetooth specs match music making requirements. 'Stream audio to your headphones so it doesn't look odd while you're watching a movie' doesn't sound good enough for a midi controller. I think we're going to see lots of USB connectors in our future ...
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby ef37a » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:47 am

Since 'Blue Tooth was mentioned I did a little experiment last night (c: 12:00) .
BT I don't think will have low enough latency. (ever?) although I understand the sound quality can be very good these days? I therefore wondered how my wireless Microsoft keyboard* would fair?

It is linked via dongle to an old desktop that drives the printer in my living room, PC spec...

AMD Ath' ll x2 250. Two cores no HT, ram 4G(!) 240G Samsung SSD. Soundcard for test? Don't laugh...Behringer UFO202 as I could not be arsed to diss' my KA6 in the other room. I set it up with the demo of Pianoteq and, flip me! 192 samples, 4.4mS as the lowest setting using Windows Audio (Exclusive Mode. ??) Surely that will crackle like a ******? Not a bit of it, the Blues demo played out sweet as a nut and even my most manic wiping across the trackpad just made 'piano' noises. The CPU hit maxed 30% the PC was doing nothing else much.

The box for the 202 has "Ultra Low Latency" emblazend upon it but I always took that as a bit of Bellringer's puff, never checked it before. Of course, the AI is very limited (but very cheap) and only 16 bits and it does not quite make best DR use of those but is easily quiet enough for most purposed such as vinyl/tape dubbing.

So it would seem wireless operation for MIDI 2.0 is very possible. Certainly with a more powerful PC and modern AI it can be as quick as you like?

For my next trick I looped the ins to outs and hooked the 202 to my Lenovo T510 hoping this would solve my internal recording problem. It did and did not, as I feared it might, scream in a feedback loop. Indeed, if there is amild problem it is that the average recording level for R3 is a bit low at -30dB fs with peaks to -20db but I can live with that.

I am going to email Behringer and ask if a 24 bit version might be under development?

*There are no model markings on this kbd save "Microsoft" I got it on offer from Sainsburys some years ago. I dare say Googling *microsoft wireless keyboard* will get a result? Very reliable (trackpad not great but you can always plug in a mouse for fiddly stuff) and the two bog s alkaline AAAs have been in it since 24/1/17!

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing ... 5-pdt.html

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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby The Elf » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:09 am

I use something similar to that keyboard for my Raspberry Pi. It's a Rii K22. Don't know if the similarites are more than skin deep:
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby ef37a » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:37 am

Hello M r Elf, I have two questions.
I have used the Msft and other wireless keyboards for years and a Tranzport briefly. Now, we are always being to that "Wireless" on a PC will mess with audio but does only apply to wireless internet controllers? I certainly have never had any audio problems I could put down to dongle connected wireless kit.

2) The Microsoft kbd is great but lacks a Prntscrn key. Is there a keystroke combination that can work that?

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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby Eddy Deegan » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:47 am

ef37a wrote:The Microsoft kbd is great but lacks a Prntscrn key. Is there a keystroke combination that can work that?

Are you on Windows 10? If so it's: Fn + Windows logo key + Space Bar
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby ef37a » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:05 am

Eddy Deegan wrote:
ef37a wrote:The Microsoft kbd is great but lacks a Prntscrn key. Is there a keystroke combination that can work that?

Are you on Windows 10? If so it's: Fn + Windows logo key + Space Bar

Win Ten on an Ath 2 with four gigs Ed? 'Aving a giraffe! No mate it is Win 7 Home.

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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby Eddy Deegan » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:39 am

ef37a wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:
ef37a wrote:The Microsoft kbd is great but lacks a Prntscrn key. Is there a keystroke combination that can work that?

Are you on Windows 10? If so it's: Fn + Windows logo key + Space Bar

Win Ten on an Ath 2 with four gigs Ed? 'Aving a giraffe! No mate it is Win 7 Home.

I like a good giraffe :-)

As far as I know, without the button in question your next best option on Windows 7 is to use the Snipping tool. It's pretty handy actually, I like using it on Win 10 too.

More info here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... creenshots

Although the link references windows 10, the article it leads to applies to Windows 7 and 8.1 as well.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby The Elf » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:47 pm

ef37a wrote:I have used the Msft and other wireless keyboards for years and a Tranzport briefly. Now, we are always being to that "Wireless" on a PC will mess with audio but does only apply to wireless internet controllers? I certainly have never had any audio problems I could put down to dongle connected wireless kit.
Can't say I've ever given this stuff a second thought - but I've never found any problems that required me to think about it!

I have wirelss keyboard/mouse combos on all my desktop PCs, studio(s) included.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby James Perrett » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:40 pm

When you are talking about wireless keyboards connected via a dongle and the Tranzport they just look like standard wired devices to the computer. As they use their own communications protocol which is likely to be simpler than Bluetooth any delays due to the wireless link are going to be lower too. It is the network devices that seem to be the ones that cause problems.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby DGL. » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:49 pm

I got one if the chepo Rapoo multimode wireless keyboard + mouse sets, which allows you to either use the included dongle or Bluetooth, now for the computer it was destined to be used on Bluetooth is not present so no real reason to get the bluetooth one, other that the fact that my Lumia 930 had Bluetooth and it was worth a try for the little extra cash over a non Bluetooth one, and yes, WP 10 can be controlled with a keyboard and mouse!
Seeing the little mouse cursor on my small phone screen was quite weird.
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