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A bit of sad news on a few fronts

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Re: A bit of sad news on a few fronts

Postby James Perrett » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:14 pm

Tim Gillett wrote:Whereas if the live dynamic was only 60db, the losses should be the same at each generation, I would have thought.

I'm thinking of things like cymbal sounds and transients which are deadened slightly once recorded on analogue tape. Once this deadening has taken place with the first generation, subsequent generations seem to harm the remaining transients far less. This is my personal experience over many years of recording real instruments.
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Re: A bit of sad news on a few fronts

Postby Tim Gillett » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:49 pm

James Perrett wrote:
Tim Gillett wrote:Whereas if the live dynamic was only 60db, the losses should be the same at each generation, I would have thought.

I'm thinking of things like cymbal sounds and transients which are deadened slightly once recorded on analogue tape. Once this deadening has taken place with the first generation, subsequent generations seem to harm the remaining transients far less. This is my personal experience over many years of recording real instruments.

For me this is a case of (high frequencies) saturation. With modern high energy tapes and tape machines, wide tracks, NR and 15ips it shouldnt really have been such an issue much of the time. As the writer of a respected manual on studio analog sound recording once wrote (the book is in our local State Library but the author's name escapes me), operators used to pushing record levels hard in older times or on less capable recorders, didnt always make the adaption to higher energy tapes, good double ended NR etc, and continued to push record levels as hard as they used to, not understanding that the lower noise floor afforded by NR now allowed them to record at more conservative levels, helping avoid saturation, distortion, not least at high frequencies. Some or all of that much reduced noise floor could now be traded off for less or no saturation.
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Re: A bit of sad news on a few fronts

Postby James Perrett » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:06 pm

Tim - there are plenty of shoulds and oughts in your reply but no indication of your personal experience in this matter. Are you saying that in your personal experience the degradation is evenly distributed across the original recording and then subsequent generations of tape copies?
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Re: A bit of sad news on a few fronts

Postby Tim Gillett » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:33 pm

James Perrett wrote:Tim - there are plenty of shoulds and oughts in your reply but no indication of your personal experience in this matter. Are you saying that in your personal experience the degradation is evenly distributed across the original recording and then subsequent generations of tape copies?

I agreed with your earlier post that the degradation wont necessarily be evenly distributed across tape generations, and offered an explanation, namely when the dynamic range of the session tape is exceeded by the live signal, as it can be.

So:
Tim Gillett wrote: I think it depends on the dynamics of the live sound. For tape with 70db dynamic range capacity, a live dynamic of 90db wont "fit", hence the big losses. But from then on, the losses wont be as great, as the big damage has already been done. Whereas if the live dynamic was only 60db, the losses should be the same at each generation, I would have thought.


You have claimed that the losses at the live tracking are greater than at subsequent generations. I agree that they can be. But in addition to having experienced it, and I don't doubt your experience, can you suggest an explanation for the phenomenon?
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