Hi guys - as the title says - has anyone any experience with mics and Hang drums in a live / recording setting? We need to capture the resonance so the mics need to be around 6 - 8 inches + from the playing surface, but without picking up bleed from monitors etc.. ideally the capture needs to be a 18" - 20" or so radius..
We've tried contact mics on the inside with limited success as there is too much of the sound of the finger hits as opposed to the actual sound of the instrument.
Any advice much appreciated!
x

..I have put this post in the live section as well hope thats Ok, but its as much to do with recording live as anything..:)

..Ok, Ill re-phrase that :-)
..can anyone recommend mics that have a more focussed area, to avoid bleed from a wider sound source? - would a rode M2 be a good direction to go?

Hi Maxine

[Mod hat on] First of all, I've deleted the duplicate thread you'd put in 'Live Sound'. We find duplicate threads are not a good idea as you get two sets of advice running - often conflicting - and everyone, including you, ends up getting very confused. I deleted the 'Live' thread as this one has more views.

[Mod hat off] What mics have you tried so far? If 'bleed' is an issue it may mean a combination of realigning your stage layout and/or using more directional mics. So... a bit more background on what you've tried, what's sitting near the hang-drums etc may help us give some specific, rather than just general, advice.

Cheers. Mike

The Shpongle Live at the Roundhouse DVD from a couple of years back has close-up footage of Manu Delago playing an extended feature on the hang, in a live setting. Maybe you can see how it's mic'd.

Also, wikipedia has a pic (click for full-size) showing him and some mics. Not sure if this particular pic is from a live setting tho'.

Thanks for the replies - apologies for the double post..

Really appreciate the close up of the Delago footage Chris - I did come across the Shpongle DVD before - and also read an interview of them talking about the live set up, with them both saying it was a challenge to avoid bleed from other sources..but to my ear the gig sounded great. Up to now Ive only tried a couple of sm57s which were ok ish, but did collect a fair amount of sound from a monitor close by (which needs to be there) - and experimented with contact mics which apart from needing some extreme eq also picked up too much of the finger hits as opposed to the actual instrument.
As Im looping the Hangs in real time I could do with something a little more isolating.

I just wondered if anyone could suggest a more directional mic - I was thinking about the rode M2 but wasnt sure if this suited a closer sound source? There is a bass amp close by as well as another monitor.
What do you think the mics are that Manu is using? - they look AKG ish to my inexperienced eye?
x

Looks like Manu is using Neumann TLM103s or similar, quite open cardioid mics which would not deliver the tight pattern you are looking for. I tend to use Sennheirser e614s for live applications of subtle instruments. They're hyper cardioid and are reasonably tight. If you had the budget you could look at Sennheiser mkh50.

However the issue you are solving is very much to do with mic placement and keeping monitor levels down and from what you've said, any mic will be challenged to deliver a result. If you're not close to solving the problem with a 57, the problem may not be solvable using monitors. Have you considered in ears for the musicians?

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Thanks Bob - afraid even the mkh 50's are out of budget..we have thought about in ear monitoring yes, so that may well be worth looking into. Would the Rode M2 perform any better than the 57's in this set up?

Where are you based Maxine? If not too far from Oxford I'd be happy to stop-by with my cases of mics to try a few and see how they work for you. Trying things is always better than guessing...

Quote Maxine:

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Thanks Bob - afraid even the mkh 50's are out of budget..we have thought about in ear monitoring yes, so that may well be worth looking into. Would the Rode M2 perform any better than the 57's in this set up?

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I'm not familiar with the M2s, but I would guess (from what I've read) that I would prefer their sound to the 57 s in your application, but I'm not sure they would attenuate the monitor bleed anymore. The more I think about it the more I believe this should be solved with headphone or in ear monitoring. You simply have to reduce bleed if you're using the mics for loops.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Mike, thats a fab offer, thank you - Im afraid Im in Falmouth at the moment so not exactly a half hour drive away!

Yes, Bob, I think you are right, and we'll look into in ears for sure. Thanks for the input guys.

Quote Maxine:

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Mike, thats a fab offer, thank you - Im afraid Im in Falmouth at the moment so not exactly a half hour drive away!

Yes, Bob, I think you are right, and we'll look into in ears for sure. Thanks for the input guys.

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Ah well; 'twas just a thought...

As usual Mr Bickerton speaks sooth! Another approach might be to look for a smaller monitor - something like a Mackie SRM150 that you could put on a mic stand and get closer to the head of the Hang player - thus reducing monitor volume.

As for mics, a hypercardioid (or more than one) would be the way to go to reduce some bleed - although you do have to be aware of the node at the rear of the pick-up pattern. Positioning of the mic in relation to other sound sources is crucial. The Rode M2 is a hypercardiod; I'd also thought of the Beyer M201.... but probably best to seek to address stage volumes first.