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Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

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Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby D.Terrell » Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:26 pm

I am doing a study about what are the factors that make sound editors resort to Kontakt foley libraries in their motion picture production.

Anyone with some thoughts about this subject ?

Thanks in advanced
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:38 pm

Budget. Availability of foley studio. Capability of foley operators. Time available to record bespoke foley. ...
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby D.Terrell » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:24 pm

Hi Hugh, thanks for your reply. Greatly appreciated. "Capability of Foley operators" is a great point indeed.
Another question, when employed audio editors are working on low budget movies and they decide to purchase Kontakt Libraries, who higher in the chain generally approves the purchase in audio post production companies?
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:44 pm

This seems rather obvious too... But if they're self-employed working on contract, then they might specify it themselves as a tool for the job. But if working for a post-production company, the audio department manager would normally hold the purse strings.

Are you just here to promote the Kontact library? There are plenty of alternative and well known professional sound FX libraries out there.
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:27 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:There are plenty of alternative and well known professional sound FX libraries out there.

Indeed there are.

Yes, Kontakt is a very well known sampler that has a host of third party instrument and FX libraries, but all you really need for foley work are the samples themselves.

For instance, I remember way back in 2002 reviewing for SOS a sound effect collection from The Hollywood Edge which was most impressive:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ho ... nd-effects


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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby Zukan » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:07 am

Nice one Martin. There is also this, from UVI:
https://www.uvi.net/en/soundfx/xtreme-fx.html
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby The Red Bladder » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:20 am

D.Terrell wrote: who higher in the chain generally approves the purchase in audio post production companies?
Movies have strict budgets and each budget is divided up into sections, just like any other commercial enterprise. The main divisions are usually pre-production, principal photography, cast, music, VFX, post-production, marketing. The audio comes out of post-prod and is sub-divided into all sorts of bits like ADR, Foleys, sound FX.

So the answer is that Foleys usually gets a tiny sliver of cash compared to other parts of a project. But each project is different and budgets are cut up into very different proportions. Lord of the Rings III had a huge audio and score budget and the results were suitably magnificent. Small indi films seldom think of audio until it's editing time - and then try to do things as cheaply as possible.

Major movie projects do not usually use libraries because of (a) the various rights issues and (b) it is hard to get sound FX in 7.1 and 3D (Atmos, DTS-X) and finally (c) they need to sound unique for marketing and legal reasons.

There is also the fact that production sound techniques have become far better and one often can use that, rather than having to do ADR and Foleys after the event.
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby D.Terrell » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:13 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:This seems rather obvious too... But if they're self-employed working on contract, then they might specify it themselves as a tool for the job. But if working for a post-production company, the audio department manager would normally hold the purse strings.

Are you just here to promote the Kontact library? There are plenty of alternative and well known professional sound FX libraries out there.

Thanks for again for your reply Hugh.

I am actually doing a business and marketing Module at S.A.E. Institute and I am conducting research to develop a business model of a fictitious product. I am also a post production newbie so there is still a many many of concepts, methodologies, and procedures that I am not aware.

I have been researching a lot but find it quite difficult to find appropriated info that will help me develop my studies.

My ideia is to develop EFX packs for Kontakt and I am trying to figure what triggers sound editors to resort to Kontakt Efx and how this tools can improve the sound editor workflow.
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:11 pm

Okay, thanks for the explanation.
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby D.Terrell » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:57 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:
D.Terrell wrote: who higher in the chain generally approves the purchase in audio post production companies?
Movies have strict budgets and each budget is divided up into sections, just like any other commercial enterprise. The main divisions are usually pre-production, principal photography, cast, music, VFX, post-production, marketing. The audio comes out of post-prod and is sub-divided into all sorts of bits like ADR, Foleys, sound FX.

So the answer is that Foleys usually gets a tiny sliver of cash compared to other parts of a project. But each project is different and budgets are cut up into very different proportions. Lord of the Rings III had a huge audio and score budget and the results were suitably magnificent. Small indi films seldom think of audio until it's editing time - and then try to do things as cheaply as possible.

Major movie projects do not usually use libraries because of (a) the various rights issues and (b) it is hard to get sound FX in 7.1 and 3D (Atmos, DTS-X) and finally (c) they need to sound unique for marketing and legal reasons.

There is also the fact that production sound techniques have become far better and one often can use that, rather than having to do ADR and Foleys after the event.


Thank you so much for your explanation
"The Red Bladder"
, great insight regarding the reasons Major Movies not usually resorting to Sfx Libraries. :thumbup:

Was wondering what are your thoughts about the use of Foley Vst Libraries like kontakt in Lower budget movies projects.
Generally speaking do you think that these EFX tools are improving audio post production in movies?
Is there a compromise in audio quality, and are these tools enhancing the audio editor workflow?
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Re: Foley vs Sound Effects Libraries vs Kontakt Foley Libraries

Postby The Red Bladder » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:30 pm

1. Your first hurdle is legal issues. I have to KNOW where the sound effect/Foley came from. I don't mean trust or believe - I really mean KNOW. The problems caused by just finding one tiny sound that was pinched from some other movie or some radio thing are so huge that the movie maker has to KNOW where every little sound came from. He/she can only do that when they commission the sound themselves, using people they can absolutely trust and have a track record in the industry.

Even mini-budget films (under $1m production costs) want to get onto the festival circuit and become the next 'Blood Simple'. Now imagine you are about to premiere at Sundance and news of a court order comes through demanding that one sound or Foley is removed because it was 'borrowed from some obscure documentary from the 70s. Or better still, they are asking for silly money and the movie is already in distribution.

2. Most Foleys and FX can be in stereo or even in mono and 'placed' aurally within the 7.1 or 3D sound spread in post. Backgrounds are ideally recorded in surround so that the action is within a real sound-bed that draws the viewer into the action and makes the movie an immersive experience. Libraries are (as far as I know) all still stereo.

3. As TV in the UK is still stereo and everything is done on a budget, I would imagine that a budget solution to Foleys would be welcome - but I do not know. My UK TV experience is confined to working for a very short while on Coronation Street, Nice Time and University Challenge back in the days of B&W. All mono and mostly ghastly garbage (as was most TV back then).

4. If your customers are making stuff for Netflix, Amazon, etc., then they will have to list all the library stuff they use and even which cameras and other equipment used - and it must come from an approved list. Most library and sample stuff used by 'enthusiasts' are not approved. (That is only what I have been told - a side of the business I do not deal with!) But that is an issue I would research if I were you.
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