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Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Folderol » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:47 pm

Actually found time to watch this. I think I'll have to do so several times :o :lol:
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby The Elf » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:01 am

Eddy Deegan wrote:I seem to recall you're not a massive Arturia fan, but if I'm wrong and/or you have it, any thoughts on how it compares to the CS80-V?
I've gone back a few times and tried their 2600, MiniMoog and others, but something just doesn't gel with me. I don't know what it is. I've not spent any time with CS-80 V to give you an opinion, TBH. But I can tell you if you can hear me now that ME80 got us close enough to what we needed for a much lower price! ;)

If you go for it, and you're a MIDI Designer Pro user, I could possibly rustle you up my rough editor template if you like. Actually it would probably work with CS-80 V too if you are prepared to do a few MIDI learns.
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Eddy Deegan » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:14 am

The Elf wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:I seem to recall you're not a massive Arturia fan, but if I'm wrong and/or you have it, any thoughts on how it compares to the CS80-V?
I've gone back a few times and tried their 2600, MiniMoog and others, but something just doesn't gel with me. I don't know what it is. I've not spent any time with CS-80 V to give you an opinion, TBH. But I can tell you if you can hear me now that ME80 got us close enough to what we needed for a much lower price! ;)

If you go for it, and you're a MIDI Designer Pro user, I could possibly rustle you up my rough editor template if you like. Actually it would probably work with CS-80 V too if you are prepared to do a few MIDI learns.

I won't deny I'm tempted as the price is very reasonable, the demos sound good and your recommendation isn't without some weight. If I didn't have the Arturia I'd grab it but I'll sleep on it, and probably try the demo out before I do.

Thank you very much for the offer of the editor template but for historical reasons I have a 'no tablet' policy when it comes to anything music related so no worries on that front :thumbup:
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:24 am

baward wrote:
nathanscribe wrote:Sounds similar to the Korg MS20 – when it comes to filter modulation, the sustain level is effectively your zero modulation point.

I agree, I was going to say that the slight difficulty-of-understanding-it reminds me of the slight kookiness of the MS-20 in that respect.

Yep, even after owning one for several years I still have to perform a minor mental manipulation to remember that its Modulation Generator is actually the LFO :headbang:


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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby The Elf » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:25 am

Eddy Deegan wrote:for historical reasons I have a 'no tablet' policy when it comes to anything music related so no worries on that front
I understand. I held out for a long time, but once I was pushed in that direction by necessity I decided to go with it. Having access to a bunch of editor panels for my old synths is very liberating. TBH I still have little love for tablet devices generally, but the pain is easing.
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Arpangel » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:29 am

Eddy Deegan wrote:
The Elf wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:But if you read my description and then listen to what actually happens as he moves the IL and AL controls in the video (link from the right section below) while ignoring what he says, it might make even more sense!
I have the ME80 plug-in, from a project we did last year. I can fiddle around with that to try it out. For anyone genuinely interested I can say that this plug-in actually quite good.

Interesting - and reasonably priced too. For some reason I seem to recall you're not a massive Arturia fan, but if I'm wrong and/or you have it, any thoughts on how it compares to the CS80-V?

Talking of which, I'll certainly be trying some things out on the latter in light of Hugh's revelations, and having just realised it also responds to poly aftertouch I'm looking forward to some fun experimentation later this week when the Hydra arrives!

I have the Arturia CS80V, if this is anything like being close to an original, then the original was an uninspiring flop.
Out of all the Arturia stuff, this is the least successful, and sounds nothing like a CS80, an original CS is impossible to replicate, and that’s why they are so expensive to buy now.
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby The Elf » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:00 am

Arpangel wrote:Out of all the Arturia stuff, this is the least successful, and sounds nothing like a CS80, an original CS is impossible to replicate, and that’s why they are so expensive to buy now.
'Impossible to replicate'? I replicated it with ME80, and I'm willing to bet my kidneys that you would hear it and never know...
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:23 am

Arpangel wrote:I have the Arturia CS80V, if this is anything like being close to an original, then the original was an uninspiring flop.

...er... but we all know that the original wasn't an uninspiring flop. It was a massive success across many different musical genres and now commands enormous second hand prices!

Out of all the Arturia stuff, this is the least successful, and sounds nothing like a CS80...

Having owned the real thing for many years, I think I can say with confidence that the plugin is capable of making remarkably similar raw sounds -- although I will admit that some of the slider control ranges are noticeably different which makes matching setups a challenge sometimes.

But the real issue is that it the CS80 was not about static sounds, it was all about how those sounds changed through the performance, and without a poly-at keybed (which the CS80V will respond to) you just can't make the plugin sing in a convincing way.
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby The Elf » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:02 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:without a poly-at keybed (which the CS80V will respond to)
The ME80 also handles poly AT - I use it with an Elka MK76.
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Eddy Deegan » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:11 pm

The Elf wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:without a poly-at keybed (which the CS80V will respond to)
The ME80 also handles poly AT - I use it with an Elka MK76.

Yeah, CS80V notwithstanding, the ME80 is a no-brainer in the cold light of day; I'll be grabbing it shortly!
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Arpangel » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:16 am

My comment about the CS80 being an uninspiring flop was misunderstood I think, it’s one of my all-tme favourite synths, and features on a lot of my favourite records.
What Hugh said about real time manipulation, well, Vangelis was the master of that, and the sounds Brian Eno got out the CS80 were truly magical.
The star of the Arturia show for me is the Casio CZ, now that’s an amazing recreation, with some truly amazing sounds, spent all day yesterday messing around with it, a really great discovery.
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Dan LB » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:39 am

Here's another good video on the mighty CS80

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_poihkLM5Go

Edit: and having now watched the entire video I know that the CS80 should not be used as a flotation device :D
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:20 am

Thanks for that.

Fond memories... :cry:
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Arpangel » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:02 am

The CS80 is definitely on my bucket list, but I’m way too scared to go there, you have to expect repair bills, and they aren’t going to be cheap, and as much as I’d like to believe that I would spend a lot of time playing it, it would also, in reality, probably spend more time in the workshop.
I’m wondering if, and how much it would take financially to make a convincing reissue?
I mean a good one, with all the hardware, and the individual oscillators for each note etc etc. Ribbon controller, full size keys.
Come on Korg? Behringer?
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Re: Yamaha CS80 - Dave Spiers' love letter

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:37 am

Arpangel wrote:The CS80 is definitely on my bucket list, but I’m way too scared to go there, you have to expect repair bills, and they aren’t going to be cheap, and as much as I’d like to believe that I would spend a lot of time playing it, it would also, in reality, probably spend more time in the workshop.

In fact, a well maintained CS80 is a remarkably reliable thing, despite its age. Preventative maintenance, like replacing the electrolytic caps before they cause trouble, and swapping out the old CMOS chips before they give up is all it really needs most of the time.

The only real problem is with the custom Yamaha oscillator, filter and envelope ICs which do occasionally -- but pretty infrequently -- decide to croak for no obvious reason, and finding replacements is now getting seriously difficult and expensive.

I’m wondering if, and how much it would take financially to make a convincing reissue?

Well, there's Dekkards dream for around $4k already:
Image
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/black-corporation-deckards-dream

And Behringer's DS80 is supposed to be launched sometime this year:

Image

Price as yet unknown, but it's obviously going to be nothing like the £25k a good CS80 will currently set you back!

As to how good and accurate (both in sound and playing experience) it might be, time will tell... I'm hopeful though...
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