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help me in song writing

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Re: help me in song writing

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:10 pm

Where do you live?
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby Adam Artman » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:54 pm

I live in IRAN country in Asia.our Language is Persian but I'm crazy about English Language and west music genres.my dream is going to USA and work as music producer with pop stars,i know it is funny at first glance but it is only dream in my life and I'm trying reach to it.
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby Chet Leeway » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:08 pm

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Re: help me in song writing

Postby Adam Artman » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:34 pm

manwilde wrote:I don´t mean to go hard on you, just trying to help, but it seems to me you feel too insecure about your writing capabilities... I talk from personal experience , and it´s been said here many times: just do it. Write a lot. And then write more. Take online english classes, use google translator, listen to lots of english spoken songs, learn the lyrics and sing along to them. Also, whatever you do to communicate with people in English (like joining this forum) will help you a great deal. If you love music and have something to say, it will eventually come out. Work hard and believe in yourself.

Thank you so much my dude for your words.
yeah i think one of my big problems is i don't believe to myself.you know actually when I'm talking with others about my dream and goal that i wanna go to USA and work with Pop stars as music producer,They say disappointing things like: "there are so much talented and big music producers in USA and you are insignificant in front of them " to me and laugh.some times It makes me very depressed and I'm in dilemma that they are right or not.
and about this forum,i think SOS is a wonderful place with professional people that help kindly to others.i love this forum.
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby Adam Artman » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:06 pm

question:
1- how much grammar is important to writing lyrics?

2- how song writer choose words for lyric in English language? should they sounds like each other when sing? should syllables be match together?

3- how should i learn to write lyrics in English? with Idioms? with phrases?
how to learn writing lyric from songs wrote already?
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby The Elf » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:20 pm

Instead of thinking about lyrics, where you are at a disadvantage, why not make music? If your music is good enough it will speak for itself.
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby desmond » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:30 pm

As has been said many times - you'll figure this stuff out by doing it.

You can't delay making something in the hope that if you follow all the advice given it will be amazing right away. You have to write/make many many bad songs before you can start to write good ones. It's the process. There are no shortcuts.

In you want to be good, you have to start bad, and work your way up. *Everyone* starts this way. You should not really be considering a dream or an end goal at this stage, other than idle speculation after 20 hours in the studio sweating trying to make something good. You should be *doing it* any way you can.
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby blinddrew » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:32 pm

English is a very funny language. Some languages, like Dutch for example, have very rigid grammatical structures. Sentences always follow the same shape.
English just isn't like that, you can be much looser with your construction.
But there are rules that will trip up a non-native speaker, even if a native speaker couldn't tell you exactly what was wrong.
There are also unwritten rules. For example, a native speaker would say, "The big, red, square block." They wouldn't naturally say, "The square, red, big block." But they wouldn't be able to tell you why. :D

English also has a huge vocabulary compared to most languages because it has incorporated words from so many others: rendezvous, bikini, schadenfreude, siesta, nosh, etc. etc.
We also have lots of words that seem to say the same thing (synonyms) but actually have very subtle differences in meaning, e.g. thin, slim, skinny, slender.

This makes it a very useful language to write lyrics because there are so many different ways to express an idea, but it does also make it quite a difficult language to express an idea as a non-native speaker.

Then we get onto rhyming. Rough, though, through, bough, dough, cough all have the same last four letters but sound different.

So to come to your third question, either write your songs in your native language and then translate them. Or study existing song lyrics and find out how they say what you're trying to say.
The only downside here is that it is very easy to fall into cliche and repetition.
But most pop lyrics are cliche and repetition anyway so that might not be such a big deal anyway.

Alternatively, if your preferred genre is EDM, just dump the lyrics altogether. Focus on the music. Work really hard on your beats and your melody, grab a single phrase that you like and make that phrase the sole lyric of the song by using it in really inventive ways. Maybe you'll need a couple of phrases to add a bit of contrast, but don't get hung up on it.

There are plenty of bands who've had a lot of success in the english speaking world despite not having lyrics in English. Royskopp, Los Lobos, Rammstein, Sigur Ross, Sash! for example.

But it all comes back to creating first. Create, create, create! Then analyse. Don't get hung up on the analysis first or you'll never get started. :thumbup:
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby CS70 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:49 pm

Adam Artman wrote:question:
1- how much grammar is important to writing lyrics?

2- how song writer choose words for lyric in English language? should they sounds like each other when sing? should syllables be match together?

3- how should i learn to write lyrics in English? with Idioms? with phrases?
how to learn writing lyric from songs wrote already?

A possible idea is to write in Persian, but on top of western style music. It’a been done successfully before (not necessarily in Persian but with languages different than English). It depends a little on the genre: it’s harder if you’re all about country music, but pop or EDM are often fine.

To your questions: about grammar, think of your language. It’s the same. For certain tracks and genres you can get away with nonsensical sounds, for others grammar is essential. Bob Dylan, on his side, has never cared too much - grammar doesn’t come in the way of a good lyric.

On how to write lyrics, at the same time there’s no rules and it’s a vast subject for which books can be written (and they have). Most songs have some form of rhyming but it’s not a given. Rhyming schemes in western tradition tend to come from formal Latin and Greek structures, and while songs are free of doing what they like, often they fall in these classic patterns. But really, google “how to write lyrics” and you’ll find out more than you want.

There are a lot of synonym and rhyming thesaurus resources around, and they are very valuable and used by lots of writers (back in the time, there were rhyming booklets).

A trick many songwriters use is to write down any fragment of sentence that hits their fancy (sometimes from something as simple as a newspaper title) and keep them stashed away to use sometimes, just as you do with musical ideas.
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby awjoe » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:22 pm

Adam Artman wrote:question:
1- how much grammar is important to writing lyrics?

2- how song writer choose words for lyric in English language? should they sounds like each other when sing? should syllables be match together?

3- how should i learn to write lyrics in English? with Idioms? with phrases?
how to learn writing lyric from songs wrote already?

It's really hard to write in a second language, and it's usually a disadvantage - almost inevitably, you come across as someone writing in their second language. If you're really good, you can insert second language stuff into your writing, and it can work brilliantly:

https://youtu.be/u1KdGDEkj_U

But you have to be r-e-a-l-l-y good.
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby Adam Artman » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:29 pm

I don't know what to say to your kind people to help me.your words are putting me in the right way.thank a lot.

Ok i learned from you i should only start and create and create and create bad thing to good things step by step.

my other question is about :
can I release my music even if it's not good yet? like in CD BABY or Spinnin record labels to get feed back?
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby desmond » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:38 pm

Adam Artman wrote:can I release my music even if it's not good yet? like in CD BABY or Spinnin record labels to get feed back?

You can do what you want. But I'd question why you'd want to put out something that's bad. Wouldn't you prefer to put out something that's good? ;)

After all, five years down the line, you don't really want people searching on your name to find all your old, terrible music... ;)

If you just want to stroke your ego or get feedback, well ok, but realise that there will always be someone to say "you're brilliant" but that doesn't mean you should take that comment to heart. It's very easy to get misled by feedback, in either direction. but I guess the modern way is that all the kids dream of having a YouTube channel, and plan for that, long before figuring out developing some skills to actually *show* on it... :shrugs:
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby RichardT » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pm

Hi Adam,

I think too that you should write lyrics in Persian. Writing lyrics is much harder than writing ordinary text because you need to tell a story in very few words and you need to get it to rhyme as well.

If you want feedback you can post your music here. When you get more experience you could try SubmitHub too. But to start with it will probably be pretty clear to you that your music could be better! That’s how it is for everybody.
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby The Elf » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:08 pm

Only put your music out there when *you* are sure it is as good as it can be. There is a lot of very well produced music available. If yours does not compare well you will achieve nothing.
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Re: help me in song writing

Postby Adam Artman » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 pm

thanks a lot again.certainly your talks are like diamond for me.
can you introduce big stars artists that became number 1 from bad to good?where they started to get feedback or show them self?
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