You are here

the latest Behringer-gate

For fans of synths, pianos or keyboard instruments of any sort.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:09 pm

The BBD's used in the ensemble circuit will be from Behringer's parent company Coolaudio and dependant on the original ones used could be the same or at least similar primarily as Coolaudio only clone a select few BBD chips.

As a side note, if you open one of the new Boss Waza Craft delay pedals guess who's chips are inside :D
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am
Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby nathanscribe » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:16 pm

My notes tell me the 2nd revision VP-330 used MN3004 and MN3009 BBDs, which are 512- and 256-stage BBDs respectively. I know CoolAudio revived the 3207 and 3205, which a) run on different supplies, and b) are 1024- and 4096-stage respectively. I also know XVive have recently (more recently than the VC340 appeared) revived the MN3009. I also see the original version of the VP-330 used SAD512 and SAD1024 BBDs, which are different again to the later revision. All these changes would require changes to the control circuit in order to maintain the same time delay, otherwise the tone would be quite different.

Maybe when the warranty's out I'll take a look inside and see what they've done, but for now I'm just going to play it. :D
User avatar
nathanscribe
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1046
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:00 am
Location: Wakefield, for my sins.
I have no idea what I'm doing.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:08 pm

nathanscribe wrote:The VP had 4 octaves, the VC has 3 and an octave switch (two positions). Three octaves of playing surface might hobble some playing needs...
I don't understand why Behringer would go to all the trouble of recreating this classic machine, get it so right in almost every way (it's even blessed with an internal PSU - thank you!)... only to hobble it with this daft limitation. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Image
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12563
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Rich Hanson » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:28 am

I had a DeepMind 6 for a while and for whatever I reason I never found the three octave keyboard restrictive on that, but I do find it a little restrictive on the VC340. Possibly because I treated the DM6 more as a lead instrument playing single lines, whereas the VC340 is obviously geared towards polyphonic parts.

I suspect like many manufacturers they are building to a size as well as a price, and to be honest if that is the case I'd much rather have three octaves of full size keys than four octaves of mini keys. A bit Hobson's Choice though, innit.

However, the sound is gorgeous and you can tear mine out of my cold dead hands :D
Rich Hanson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1307
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:00 am
Location: UK

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby ef37a » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:09 am

Now don't shoot cos I only know a bit about amps and stuff. Keyboards are a a bit of a mystery.

However, if you have just 3 octaves could you get a small, 25 key say, controller and run it as the "left hand" placing it ideally left but could go on top, under?

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10594
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:05 am

Of course there are solutions, but if it had been done properly we wouldn't be having to look for solutions! We would simply be lauding a job well done.

As it is, if I have to hook up another keyboard then it might as well have been a module.

Not a show-stopper, but just such a silly, avoidable problem.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12563
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:12 am

A bit like The Doors classic rig of a Rhodes Piano Bass on top of a Vox Continental.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10012
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Escapegoat » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:35 pm

I think that Behringer, Roland, Korg, DSI, etc have all spotted that with 0% interest rates everywhere, synth profits are fattest among the got-more-£££s-than-space customers.

The small incremental cost of a 4-oct keyboard over a 3-oct keyboard is completely overshadowed by there being a far smaller market.
Escapegoat
Regular
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 12:00 am

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:43 pm

An extra octave would generate fewer sales? I find that very hard to believe!
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12563
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:20 pm

Sounds distinctly improbable to me too. OTOH if I could find a full sized 44 note midi keyboard with a Berry Model D sized slot in the top and mod/pitch wheels I'd be very happy (I'd want it a Berry money not MiniMoog money mind you.....)
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10012
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Dan LB » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:21 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Sounds distinctly improbable to me too. OTOH if I could find a full sized 44 note midi keyboard with a Berry Model D sized slot in the top and mod/pitch wheels I'd be very happy (I'd want it a Berry money not MiniMoog money mind you.....)

OK I know it’s not 44 keys but......
https://waldorfmusic.com/en/kb37
User avatar
Dan LB
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1304
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:00 am
Location: Wicklow, Ireland

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:25 pm

Yup, I was aware of that and it was the very device that prompted my "Berry money not MiniMoog money" comment :blush: It does look great and, for a non keyboard player, I'm pretty finicky about keyboard actions but that one should be lovely. Sadly £600 is too much, maybe I'll build something with a cheap controller.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10012
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Escapegoat » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:34 am

The Elf wrote:An extra octave would generate fewer sales? I find that very hard to believe!

The people in this thread do not represent the majority of either customers of ££££s spent. Like a lot of people here, I suppose, I've got a 4-deck Jaspers stand, and space for two more 5-octave keyboards. Size is not a problem (at least in this area!) for us.

But take one moment to appreciate all of the recent synth successes: Volcas, Boutiques, Minilogues, JD-Xis, Dreadboxes, and dozens of indie synth makers making ... well ... small synths. The Deepmind 12 was roundly criticised for being 4-oct when it had 12 voices. But then was a huge sales success. Same with OB6/P6/etc System 8, JD-XA.

The reason is that today's synth market is dominated by people who do not have as much space as us. Many are still stuck at home with Mum and Dad (did you miss all of those Guardian articles about getting on the housing ladder?). If they don't have space for another big keyboard they won't spend their money on the synth, even if they really want it as a tone generator.

So the synth maker can't sell so many. The market is now far smaller - just blokes like us, who have huge amounts of space, and also don't mind spending the extra £50-100.

(In fact, if people like us buy the 3-oct version as we've got the space and we can just use it with one of our 4-oct or bigger controllers, we will prove that Uli was 100% right to decide on the 3-oct version.)
Escapegoat
Regular
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 12:00 am

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:51 am

Escapegoat wrote:In fact, if people like us buy the 3-oct version as we've got the space and we can just use it with one of our 4-oct or bigger controllers, we will prove that Uli was 100% right to decide on the 3-oct version.)
Call it Hobson's choice...

If they wanted to help all these poor folk with no space then why add a keyboard at all? I'd have preferred a module (rackable - I have no desktop space!) to this compromise.

'Huge amounts of space'?!?! You obviously haven't seen my studio! I call it 'The Toadstool' for good reason! :lol:
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12563
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Stickman0_3 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:40 pm

Will we be seeing a Behringer BX7 and a Brophet VS?
Stickman0_3
Regular
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Thu May 02, 2019 4:04 pm

Well would you like a eurorack/desktop Solina?

Uli Behringer wrote:In the '80's, combining a Solina stringer with a Small Stone phaser was the way to go.

That's our take on it - please ignore the date and price as we haven't decided if and when we will build this recreation.

I would appreciate some feedback from you.

Uli

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachm ... 1556808508
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am
Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Dave B » Thu May 02, 2019 4:20 pm

A bit sad, I know, but I quite fancy the idea of a little Solina module - especially at pocket money prices. My only reservation would be that it it's a bit of a shot across the bows of Waldorf as they already have a small / cheap string synth module. Will be interesting to see if they do build it.
User avatar
Dave B
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Maidenhead
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi (I came, I saw, I conkered)

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Thu May 02, 2019 4:35 pm

I hope they do this one. It's hard to resist these little gems at these prices. Lovely stuff...
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12563
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Stickman0_3 » Fri May 03, 2019 9:04 am

Also, a Behringer version of the PPG Wave 2.3?
Stickman0_3
Regular
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Agharta » Sat May 04, 2019 1:48 am

What about a Behringer BBC Radiophonic Workshop that comes in its own Tardis so that's it's small enough to fit in your studio! :mrgreen:
Agharta
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3510
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:00 am

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users