SOUND ON SOUND

[nathanscribe]

Regarding the Linn, I've got one and I enjoy it, but I bought it back when they were unfashionable, when the LM-1 was the pricey one...

Do you have any of the Linn (or other third-party) replacement sound chips, by any chance?

Oops, need to reach my daily cuppa tea stretch goal, back in a sec...

How many cups is that, now..?

Sadly no alternate sounds here – all mine are soldered in place, though the toms are the Simmons-y ones, not the acoustics. Toms 5, I think?

Not sure if the ZIF sockets were factory standard at some point, installed on request, or a 3rd party mod. Haven't braved adding them to mine yet.

[desmond]

How many cups is that, now..?

I've no idea. Probably not quite 12 yet (though the night is but young!)

Not sure if the ZIF sockets were factory standard at some point, installed on request, or a 3rd party mod. Haven't braved adding them to mine yet.

Interesting, I thought the chips were always on sockets, though not necessarily intended, at least at first, to be user-replaceable. Although Linn did have an extensive library of custom chips (including the $20 "Silence" chip - I kid you not!) so I can't believe they were *all* soldered..?

Edit: Ah - From the LinnDrum manual:

[N i g e l]

Well a Ford Cortina is desirable for some in the Classic Car world.
It takes all sorts.

It ceratainly does.
& in the Synth world you can buy an authentic, new MS20 for £1k, with both filter types, select which nostalgaic experience you want on power up - unlike the limited edition MS20 desk module which was adulterated by a Filter 1/ Filter 2 switch, & also FM, Sync on the front panel what were they thinking !

or there was the cheap euro rack one by that other company.....

[The Elf]

Back in the day I managed to scrape enough money together to buy a Sequential Drumtracks - the poor man's Linn. I fitted ZIF sockets and was able to use Linn chips to replace the standard sounds. The Linn kick, in particular was a huge improvement.

I very much agree with the comments on how poor most drum machines were. Yes, I don't knock anyone wanting a classic piece of hardware - I'm not immune to that myself - but it pays to be discerning.

As W H Auden said of literature: “Some books are undeservedly forgotten; none are undeservedly remembered.”

For book, read 'music gear' and I think the same holds true.

[baward]

'Invasion Of The Body Snatchers' is, I hear, the favourite movie of Behringer's rivals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFe-p1gbKEc

[N i g e l]

Ive put that on my watch list for next lockdown

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I very much agree with the comments on how poor most drum machines were.

just because the old $h1t was $h1t back in the day doesnt mean that its $h1t now.
back in the day, it was the best available but now its style choice.

the hammond organ with the keyclick,
the mellotron rompler with only 8s of wobbly samples
the Moog source with only 1 knob
the 808 "drum" thing which wasnt real multisampled drums

etc

what do you wish you'd bought for cheap which now costs £expensive for a used old one ?

[The Elf]

back in the day, it was the best available...

But that's my point - it wasn't!

808? Yes, best available at the time.
Linn? Yes, best available at the time.
505? Not even close.

Quite why so many wax over the Junos, for instance, baffles me. We bought them back then because we couldn't afford a Jupiter!

[desmond]

just because the old $h1t was $h1t back in the day doesnt mean that its $h1t now.
back in the day, it was the best available but now its style choice.

That's not the point - the point is the entire functionality of those boxes is in their sounds, which can easily be replicated through a sample set.

There is very little actual musical value with those hardware machines these days (unlike back then, when there was *only* hardware, and no practically affordable samplers to replicate those sounds or features).

If you like the sounds, then grab the samples, and play them in any sample replay device/sampler/DAW/etc.

People selling 505s for £400 or whatever... well, if you want a 505 badly enough, and must have the hardware, then go for it, I'm not going to stop you... :shrugs:

what do you wish you'd bought for cheap which now costs £expensive for a used old one ?

Loads. But those are things that *do* have value, even though the vintage market has mostly priced out devies *way* beyond their musical usefulness for the most part - although at least we do have decent alternatives to get those *sounds* these days, where once there was no alternative but to get the real deal.

[desmond]

Quite why so many wax over the Junos, for instance, baffles me. We bought them back then because we couldn't afford a Jupiter!

Nostalgia and fashion are big parts of it of course - plus the fact that they are relatively simple to use and have a wide sweet spot, and produce a lot of sounds used in certain musical genres, so I can see their appeal (I was never much of a Juno fan to be honest though).

But yes, they were indeed budget synths for the folks who wanted a synth but couldn't afford the big boys. And I think a lot of people used them because they *were* affordable, and the more they were used, the more attractive they become in the future...

[The Elf]

Quite why so many wax over the Junos, for instance, baffles me. We bought them back then because we couldn't afford a Jupiter!

(I was never much of a Juno fan to be honest though).

I bought 'em and I used 'em, but I didn't like 'em.

[IAA]

I liked the Chorus unit though.

[The Elf]

[N i g e l]

Thats another thought on classics - back in the day there was millions of that stuff, the good & the average & the jumping on the bandwagon. Today we can cherry pick the good stuff [ & reuse the really bad stuff tounge in cheek ]

just because the old $h1t was $h1t back in the day doesnt mean that its $h1t now.
back in the day, it was the best available but now its style choice.

That's not the point - the point is the entire functionality of those boxes is in their sounds, which can easily be replicated through a sample set.

I disagree, for a lot of people the user interface is an important part of the process.

The 808 is a good example because it bombed on release. "it didnt sound like real drums".
Thereafter It was picked up cheap, found its niche with the creatives and established as a classic.

[desmond]

I disagree, for a lot of people the user interface is an important part of the process.

Of course.

I know what you are saying, but trust me, there is nothing about the user interface experience of using an RX11 that you'd want to pay £400 (or even £40!) for.

I've already said there *are* reasons to get *the good ones* if you like the hardware and experience - I'm not anti-hardware - and those ones are the extra pricey/desirable ones.

I mean, an RZ-1 might be fun but it sounds like pants and the main sampling feature is awful compared to *every other tool you already have*. A Korg DDM-110? A box that barely syncs to anything, has about three bars worth of memory and terrible short sounds that everybody hated even when it was released and digital drum machines were *the* sexy thing... Sure - get the samples if you want that aesthetic, but there is really no reason to buy the hardware other than to put more boxes on your desk.

If they were simply fun, "play with" money - sure, grab them, be reminded just how bad they were, discard them afterwards. But at *serious* money... it can be *much* better spent imo.

Let's take, say, the TR-707 - the first digital drum machine from Roland and it had that grid display and some other fun programming tools. Yes - the sounds can be perfectly replicated in software, and the grid programming we all have in our DAWs/sequencers of choice. But, I'd still quite like one - I think they look nice (nostalgia - hi!), and it'd be fun to play with (for an evening). However, the amount of money it would cost to play with one *vastly* outweighs it's musical usefulness, especially as I already have the sounds, and the programming environment (and then some) already. And that's one of the decent (& trendy) ones.

The 808 is a good example because it bombed on release. "it didnt sound like real drums".
Thereafter It was picked up cheap, found its niche with the creatives and established as a classic.

For me, there's zero reason to want a hardware 808, but loads of people do, and for them, it's an expensive but valid purchase. I've no problem with that at all. Whatever inspires you etc.

Note though that my original point was specifically about the early, inflexible, bad-sounding *digital* drum machines that can be perfectly replicated by samples - *not* analog machines, where that's not necessarily the case, depending on how purist a given user is.

[Arpangel]

If the drum machine had never been invented, it would make no difference to me whatsoever, I do not like them, I always think "that’s a drum machine, and it’s as boring as f**k" and how many potentially brilliant tracks start off well, and then....

THUD THUD THUD THUD and it never changes.

You can put them all in land fill AFAIC, they represent all that I hate in some types of music.
I do own one though, I use it in my music sometimes, but only ironically, or when I’m taking the piss.