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Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:32 am

Yes and yes.

The Bricasti is a stunning reverb and the System 6000 is immensely powerful and versatile. But they are high end units intended for high end applications and there are more cost-effective solutions for project studios.

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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby The Elf » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:47 am

I've A-B'd my PCM96 against the Lexicon Native package. Identical to my ears. If you want a more cost-effective solution that's might suit you better.

But yes, those reverbs (and the Lexicon PCM series) are very magical indeed. If Bricasti go native I'm buying.
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby comradec » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:00 am

Go buy one of each, test them against each other and let us know how they compare. ;-)
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby tomafd » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:44 am

The Elf wrote:I If Bricasti go native I'm buying.


Doesn't it use the CPU equivalent of 4 fully loaded Mac Pros ? (Or something ...) You may be waiting a while for Macs (or PCs) to catch up !

I'll be sticking with my hardware TC M2000 for the mo'
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby The Elf » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:01 pm

tomafd wrote:
The Elf wrote:I If Bricasti go native I'm buying.

Doesn't it use the CPU equivalent of 4 fully loaded Mac Pros ? (Or something ...) You may be waiting a while for Macs (or PCs) to catch up !

I'll be sticking with my hardware TC M2000 for the mo'
They said the same about the PCM96... ;)
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby ef37a » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:04 pm

Just the tooling up/development for that hardware must have cost them a pretty penny and they are not going to shift sack loads of them like Behringers are they?
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby Aftertouch » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:42 pm

tomafd wrote:
The Elf wrote:I If Bricasti go native I'm buying.


Doesn't it use the CPU equivalent of 4 fully loaded Mac Pros ? (Or something ...) You may be waiting a while for Macs (or PCs) to catch up !

I'll be sticking with my hardware TC M2000 for the mo'


A red herring (that I never bought) which has been blown out of the water by Lexicon releasing native versions of their top reverb algorithms.

Quoting from Paul White's review of the Lexicon PCM Native Reverb in the March edition of SOS:-

"...most presets consumed about one eighth of one core on my Mac Pro"
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby The Elf » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:04 pm

Aftertouch wrote:A red herring (that I never bought) which has been blown out of the water by Lexicon releasing native versions of their top reverb algorithms.

Quoting from Paul White's review of the Lexicon PCM Native Reverb in the March edition of SOS:-

"...most presets consumed about one eighth of one core on my Mac Pro"
Precisely. I’d often wondered just how much grunt lay behind those glossy panels. I guess now we have some idea.

The Lexicon Native doesn’t offer all of the algorithms of the PCM96, but I can tell you, from first hand experience, those that is does offer are spot on. Three or four instances certainly didn’t unduly tax the PC I saw it running on and I think that was a dual core at least a few years old..

So how much juice it takes to grow a Bricasti algorithm, hmm?
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby Steve Hill » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:29 pm

In fairness, Lexicon PCM reverbs are not their high-end ones (good though they are), and it is the Bricasti which is supposedly a full-on computer all by itself. As are the big Lexicons like the 960.

I know my 480 is basically a computer in its own right.

Lexicon's crown jewels are still not native, and it may not be possible for them to become so.
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby Aftertouch » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:49 pm

True, but does the reverb actually need an entire computer is the question?

If I recall correctly, the Bricasti's processing power was benchmarked against a G5, a very old CPU by today's standards. Any MacPro, i5 or i7 PC would eat several of them for breakfast.

Therefore the fact that Paul White reported figures of around 1/32th of the total processing power of a quad core Mac, or 1/64th of an 8-core, makes it highly unlikely that processing power (or lack of) is in any way the reason why Bricasti haven't yet released native versions of their hardware - but they will ;)
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby Aftertouch » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:33 pm

Back to the original question, "Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?"

I guess the answer must be yes if people are prepared to pay up to the £10,000 price tag of the TC System 6000 you linked to above.

For me though, the answer is a resounding no, but I'm not a pro!

I have a Powercore card with TC's VSS3 and DVR2 reverbs. This allows me to run up to eight instances of either on my Powercore card. The total cost was about £1000 and of course included all of the other standard Powercore plug-ins, some of which are very good.

A while back you could also have picked up a Powercore 6000 for £1000, which has double the power of my card and included NonLin2 (another reverb plug-in), the excellent MD3 Stereo Mastering plug-in and their Brickwall Limiter.

Now these reverbs are very good (and I mean very good) and whilst there are better (including TC's own VSS4 algorithms from the System 6000 ), this route offers extremely good value for money, as well as excellent flexibility.

I'm convinced that the release of the Lexicon native bundle will be a total game changer, not in it's own right, but what will follow.

At the end of last year after Lexicon announced their native bundle, TC announced that they will be releasing plug-ins early this year that are of the most requested. If you visit their forums, the most requested is native or Powercore versions of their flagship VSS4 reverb.

When they do, I expect the street price of the Lexicon bundle to dip below £1000 and other software companies will close the gap, as they will inevitably reverse- engineer the code in order to better their own reverb development.

This will drive prices down further still, whilst the quality will rise. It will be then that the already diminished market for dedicated reverb units of the level linked to above will be so small that it will be of little significance.
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby Steve Hill » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:01 pm

Aftertouch wrote: It will be then that the already diminished market for dedicated reverb units of the level linked to above will be so small that it will be of little significance.

Don't underestimate the film and post market, often working in surround. Even if every recording studio goes bust, Hollywood (and for that matter Pinewood) are going to be buying and using these things for a while yet.
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby narcoman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:47 am

indeed. The biggest markets in high end gear AREN'T recording bands.
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:30 am

Aftertouch wrote:
tomafd wrote:
The Elf wrote:I If Bricasti go native I'm buying.

Doesn't it use the CPU equivalent of 4 fully loaded Mac Pros ? (Or something ...) You may be waiting a while for Macs (or PCs) to catch up !

I'll be sticking with my hardware TC M2000 for the mo'

A red herring (that I never bought) which has been blown out of the water by Lexicon releasing native versions of their top reverb algorithms.

Quoting from Paul White's review of the Lexicon PCM Native Reverb in the March edition of SOS:-

"...most presets consumed about one eighth of one core on my Mac Pro"

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.... 8-)
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby Aftertouch » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:25 pm

Steve Hill wrote:
Don't underestimate the film and post market, often working in surround. Even if every recording studio goes bust, Hollywood (and for that matter Pinewood) are going to be buying and using these things for a while yet.

Absolutely right, point taken.

Although maybe even they might at some point benefit from surround plug-in versions of TC, Bricasti of Lexicon reverbs purely from a flexibility perspective?

RolandFantom wrote:
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.... 8-)

Care to elaborate?
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Re: Are these Reverb units actualy worth their price tag?

Postby ROLO46 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:54 pm

They dont have to be costly
Just not new
I have Lexi PCM42 (Delay) and PCM 60 verb/plate
I was thinking of trading them in for a PCM92
However I love their idiosyncratic sounds(80's!!) and will keep both till they die and then buy a S/H 92 perhaps.
Buying the best you can has been good policy for me over the years, ebay beckons and still the garage is not empty.. :angel:
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